Hill vs. Ocean QTH

Ve3bmv at aol.com Ve3bmv at aol.com
Sun Nov 3 14:37:28 EST 1996

Thanks for the N5IA/7 story: CQ WW Field Day Style, too bad about your WX and
icing problems. I was looking forward to your in depth experiences and answer
to my 30 year old question: "Is the super radio hill, or super radio ocean
QTH better for low band operation?" As I was almost getting satisfied with
believing that ocean is it, you resurected the Radio Hill bug and I think it
deserves further exploration until the answer is found.

Yes, ICE can be deadly. I had my share of ice problems during the contests
while QRV back in Toronto. Makes antennas useless. Only solution could be to
have some option of heating the elements, using loops or folded dipoles with
provision to supply some heating via low voltage, high current supply.

First let me brush off dust of my ducting/refractive propagation theory. See
CQ and RadioSporting article (RS Dec. 1986) on the subject. I firmly believe
that we are ducting and refracting rather than reflecting as all the books
say (at least 90% of propagating RF). From that point of view, being at the
high mountain peak, besides having good low horizon, it should be
advantageous to be closer to the propagating (ducting) layer, less refractive
loss in "getting into the layer". My "Conductive" theory also explains lot of
skewed path propagation. Yes, there is skewed path from 160 to 10 m,
following the trail of "hot" patch closer to the Sun's footprint on Earth.
With ocean QTH I can see the benefit of salt water GP and unobstructed path.

Why I have this "bug" about mountain being good for low bands? Back in OK
land when I was in search for that ultimate QTH, I used to work in Sabinov,
just N of Presov. There was a hill with a TV repeater on it (called Homolka =
Peak). One day I went to the top of it with little transistor AM radio. It
was around the noon time, when normally you could hear only one or two local
AM stations on the band. When I got close to the TV repeater tower (abt 100
ft tall) I started to hear whole Europe, with stations QRMing each other.
That bugged me ever since. Unfortunately (or fortunately to avoid the prison
for supporting Dubcek with my OK3BU station) I was fortunate to QSY to the
West and never finished my research on this phenomena. Another interesting
thing about the terain there was that this hill was sitting like in the
crater of hillls with about 7 km radius of almost flat land. Was it remnants
of the meteor? Donno, wasn't around then. Hi

I talked to few 160'ers like K1ZM, most recommend ocean front. So I went to
VE1ZZ's place for WW phone (signed CG1ZZ) and WOW!!! Wish I could work what I
heard. Sure beats my in-land experiences so far. This was like being in the
receive-the-world-QTH. No POWER LINE NOISE!!! Condx that weekend were lousy,
plus very high 20 over 9 static crashes second night, but I could HEAR Eu at
4 pm! (Had my share of problems with beverage switching, blew my 930S). But
considering the circumstances it was a real eye opener for me, plus just
about doubled my old NA 160 record.

I think the HILL vs. OCEAN question can be answered only by having two nearly
identical and GOOD setups operated one at the high hill, one at the ocean,
not too far apart. I am gearing for that. Trying to assemble portable baloon
supported vertical array with complement of beverages. Hoping to fire up some
nights. Any help with operating and reporting will be appreciated. I will
announce few days ahead when the tests will run. I will compile the results
and make them available to Top Band crowd.

I would also appreciate any experiences, notes and comments on this subject.
Please send the info to my email addr: VE3BMV at AOL.COM

73 de Yuri, VE3BMV, AB2BO, P40A, ex OK3BU, soon ...
"We are not reflecting RF!!! We are refracting and ducting!!!!
dit dit

P.S. Does anyone know what IG9/IV3TAN was running on 160? He was consistently
the loudest station out of that part of the world!

>From w2up at voicenet.com (Barry Kutner)  Sun Nov  3 20:20:41 1996
From: w2up at voicenet.com (Barry Kutner) (Barry Kutner)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 20:20:41 +0000
Subject: Logging pgms
Message-ID: <199611032023.PAA19374 at mail3.voicenet.com>

I am interested in comments regardin DX4WIN logging program, for DX 
and post-CONTEST importing, etc.

Pse reply to me, and I'll summarize for group, if there is interest.
Barry Kutner, W2UP              Internet: w2up at voicenet.com
Newtown, PA         FRC         alternate: barry at w2up.wells.com

>From wh2z at juno.com (David W Mueller)  Sun Nov  3 20:40:53 1996
From: wh2z at juno.com (David W Mueller) (David W Mueller)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 15:40:53 EST
Subject: Apology to SS participants de WH2Z
Message-ID: <19961103.203249.7943.0.wh2z at juno.com>

   I'd like to apologize to those SS participants whom I called during
the contest.  I was using a backup rig (TS-820) and was completely
unaware I had VOX problems until N5RZ let me know Sunday Afternoon (N5RZ-
TNX for the info!!).  I was using my new call for the first time ever on
CW and it seemed like it was impossible for anyone to copy it correctly. 
"Dit dit dah dah dit dit" was the usual response to my call, and I wasn't
getting any replies to my CQ's.   I didn't think the new call was THAT
lousy on CW, but I was getting upset and was already considering jumping
into the Vanity Call fray!!!
    The reason I upgraded my  call was because there was only one Guam
2x1 call left (non vanity), and I have a good chance to be transferred
back to the island next summer.  In addition my wife and I have already
decided to move there when I retire from the Coast Guard (years in the
future).  On top of that, I was getting tired of everyone calling me

       Now, a question for the masses:  I'm planning a serious effort in
the ARRL 160 contest   next month (with a good working rig).  Should I
sign WH2Z  or WH2Z/2?  I'm leaning to the latter.  Even though the
section is part of the exchange I'd rather not confuse anyone who doesn't
hear me very well.  AH3C have you had any problems with this?

    Anyway,  sorry  for the bandwidth.... once I get my main rig back I
hope to work everyone with my nice new shiny callsign!!!   And hopefully
it will still be my callsign; The ARRL told me last week it was OK to use
it even though I haven't recieved the license in the mail yet, but now I
just read that there are problems with all the  FCC updates after October
   Please reply only to me and not the whole reflector.

Thanks,  and  73, 
 Dave WH2Z/2  (Used to be KE2PF)

**************    WH2Z at JUNO.COM   ******************
David Mueller, WH2Z/2
          NJ            Guam        Saipan          Philippines
Active duty member, US Coast Guard, Cape May NJ

>From HWDX09A at prodigy.com ( ROBERT   REED)  Sun Nov  3 21:32:31 1996
From: HWDX09A at prodigy.com ( ROBERT   REED) ( ROBERT   REED)
Date: Sun,  3 Nov 1996 16:32:31, -0500
Subject: OUT OF BAND Q's and other grumblings
Message-ID: <199611032132.QAA03374 at mime4.prodigy.com>

Hi Doug,

Last year also I noticed V26B operating almost exclusively in the DX 
subband on 15 meters and spent many hours waiting for you guys to 
decide to work USA stations. I had already worked V26B on 4 bands in 
the 1st hour of the contest looking for the certificate to be issued.

Finally 30 minutes before the end of the contest your 20M op told me 
that 15 had shut down for the contest but that you would be dragged 
back over to the rig for me to get a 15M QSO and certificate.

Well, I was on frequency with lots of nice Carribean signals coming 
through and no V26B for 20 minutes when I gave up.

As a leisurely operator I'll work 800 - 1,100 Q's for those who need 
the Q's. Because of my health I rarely operate more than 14-16 hours 
and don't send in a log except for ARRL SS.

Notice that in the 1996 CQWW contest my callsign does not appear on 
any band even though I was well aware from friends on the trip to 
call. Could it be my disappointment from the previous year ? I'll bet 
it had a big effect on my not bothering to call.


 73,   Bob Reed, WB2DIN 
       1991 Route 37 West - Lot 109
       Toms River, New Jersey  08757

       Internet : hwdx09a at prodigy.com

       Pager  :  (908) 288 - 6552

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