[CQ-Contest] Packet Cheerleaders

[Tony Rogozinski]

So shall we encourage everyone to have all their friends and family put out 
packet spots all weekend?  I am certain that something can be done to
discourage the "cheerleading" activity.  Rather than finding fault with the
attempt to find a solution maybe think about making other suggestions.

Tony   W4OI, W4AMR &  HK3KAV
       ex N7BG et al

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kelly Taylor" <ve4xt at mb.sympatico.ca>
To: "Tony Rogozinski" <tonyrogo at telegraphy.com>; <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Packet Cheerleaders


> Seems to me to be a complete perversion of the presumption of innocence. To
> say that you must proactively take steps to make sure others don't break the
> rules is a little much.
> 
> 
> 73, kelly
> ve4xt
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony Rogozinski" <tonyrogo at telegraphy.com>
> To: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Packet Cheerleaders
> 
> 
> It seems to me that as sophisticated as we are nowadays in log checking that
> it should be possible to check packet spots - at least for the major
> clusters -
> to determine if there is any "cheerleading" going on.  And I think it could
> most
> likely be determined, if potential violations are discovered, whether or not
> it was an intentional effort by the operator or an intentional effort by
> someone
> else to have the operater DQ'd or just some good samaritan trying to help.
> On the other hand if the rules would prohibit that activity then I think it
> would be
> every serious operators' obligation to inform their friends, club members
> and
> others that  "cheerleading" is not  legal.
> Unfortunately, for reasons I don't understand, there are "cheaters" in every
> form of competition and we should try to enforce the rules for the benefit
> of
> the vast majority of contestants who play by them.
> 
> FWIW
> 
> Tony   W4OI, W4AMR &  HK3KAV
>       ex N7BG et al
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Notarius" <wn3vaw at verizon.net>
> To: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 11:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Packet Cheerleaders
> 
> 
>> And THAT is the heart of the problem, IMHO.
>>
>> There is no way to determine if the Packet Cheerleaders have been
> organized
>> in advance by the station(s) in question, or if they just decided to do it
>> on their own without the knowledge of the station(s).
>>
>> Hypothetically:  Let's say my club puts together a team to send down to
> our
>> USVI outpost and activate NP2SH for an upcoming major contest.  I think we
>> can all agree that it should be wrong for the club to plan, in advance, to
>> have people back home to make sure that they constantly spot the NP2SH
>> station.  But what if one person back home works them, spots them, and
> then
>> mentions on the club repeater where they are... so a few other club
> members
>> can work them... and then those guys decide to "help" by spotting, and it
>> snowballs from there.
>>
>> Should the hypothetical NP2SH station take the hit after the fact (up to
> and
>> including DQ) because some folks back home thought they were "helping?"
> And
>> worse thought, let's say that NP2SH becomes aware of this, objects to it
> and
>> asks the gang back home to stop -- and they don't, for whatever reason.
>> What then?
>>
>> The core problem is that ethics can not be enforced... that is, I can not
>> force you to be ethical (after all, you and I might well differ on what is
>> and isn't ethical behavior on some hair-splitting points).  You can write
>> the rules as much as possible to encourage ethical and legal behavior, but
>> there will always be those who choose to do as they please.
>>
>> Packet Cheerleading should be discouraged, and I applaud K1TTT et al for
>> bringing to light some of the... well, if not unethical or questionable,
>> certainly odd or unusual operating behaviors.  But before we start
> assessing
>> penalities, let's be sure we understand the problem and make sure we apply
>> those penalities to the right station.
>>
>> Just imagine... two M/M stations battling it out from the same region,
> tight
>> race, tight scores.  Wouldn't it be terrible if someones associated with
> M/M
>> 1 decided to cheerlead M/M 2 just to try and get them DQ'd?  (You think
> that
>> couldn't happen?  The way some of us have a "win at any cost" mentality? )
>>
>> 73, ron wn3vaw
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:17:08 +0100
>> From: Jan Erik Holm <sm2ekm at telia.com>
>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Packet Cheerleaders
>> To: cq-contest <cq-contest at contesting.com>
>>
>> Problem is, when is it random and when is it
>> not random.
>>
>> 73 SM2EKM
>>
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>>
>>
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