[CQ-Contest] Be careful

Tony Rogozinski tonyrogo at telegraphy.com
Sun Jan 2 18:26:35 EST 2005

I think we all have to realize that you must have a beachfront QTH where
the verticals are either very near or in the water to get these results.
How many of us are fortunate enough to be in this situation?  Hence,
the majority of contesters will be using yagi's which are much less 
logistically challenging than Quads.  I used Quads for many years
and in my opinion  there is no doubt that a 2 element quad will outperform
a 3 element yagi, etc..  In addition Quads are much quieter antennas.
Absolutely no rain static and the ambient QRN levels are much less
than with yagis.  These are not really opinions but actual observations
over the past 47 years of operating.  Obviously it's much easier to 
stack yagis so most people who desire a large array will go that
route instead of stacking Quads.  If you plan operate a contest from
an exotic location where the antennas are on the roof of a hotel and
no where near the ocean your first choice is going to be a yagi not a
quad and certainly not a vertical.  Last December I used a vertical to
operate from my apartment in Cartagena, Colombia.  It was at about
185' overlooking the Caribbean and the performance quite frankly
sucked!  This year I'll be putting a tower on top of the building with
yagi's on the mast.

                    Tony Rogozinski
Amateur Radio W4OI - W4AMR - HK3KAV
                      ex N7BG, et al

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Kelly Taylor" <ve4xt at mts.net>
To: <K3BU at aol.com>; <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Be careful

> And how much extra effort is involved in installing a "small 3-stack" vs.
> verticals? Particularly in a DX-pedition setting?
> Is that worth less than an S-unit?
> I think the point that needs to be made here is that K2KW et al didn't
> arrive at the decision to use verticals lightly. It certainly wasn't a
> decision founded on saving time, effort and money, though that is indeed a
> benefit. They researched departure angles to the areas they needed to reach
> and compared models of verticals against yagis and found the yagis
> underperformed -- for the areas they were trying to reach -- in each
> instance. The decision was founded upon gains acheived <<at certain angles>>
> not overall.
> I'd say with the wall candy they've acquired, their models have been borne
> out. Anyone with doubts should read the report referenced earlier. It is
> shows a comprehensive decision-making process. Particularly interesting was
> the research done on where on the beach to locate the antenna (over the
> water or 1/4-wl away?). Most would be surprised at the result.
> That, as Kenny says, you can fit the entire station's antenna system into
> three golf-club carrying cases is just the icing on the cake. Important when
> it's a DX-pedition vs. establishing a permanent station.
> It may be a bitter pill for someone with multiple 45Gs on Dutch territory to
> swallow, but that doesn't make it any less true.
> 73, kelly
> ve4xt
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <K3BU at aol.com>
> To: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Be careful
>> In a message dated 1/2/2005 8:57:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>> btippett at alum.mit.edu writes:
>> >>K3BU:
>> >Just to bring to attention that verticals can be awesom, beat Yagis when
>> properly used (on salty beaches).
>> It's deja vu all over again...didn't we have this conversation
>> once before (see post from 21 March below).  More refined modeling
>> shows the small 3-stack has peak gain around 21.7 dBi, not 19.6 dBi
>> mentioned below.
>> http://users.vnet.net/btippett/terrain_&_toa's.htm
>>                                                  73,  Bill  W4ZV
>> .......
>> W4ZV            2009   37  138      31   1,021,825 PVRC
>> N2EE/4          1675   36  128             792,284 FRC  LOW POWER
>> <<
>> Rest of the "reasoning" omitted.
>> Yep, here we go again :-)
>> So in the rest of your post you are comparing 18 elements of your
> optimized
>> stack with my crummy 4 el. 4sq. and I was LOW POWER that is my IC781 vs.
> your
>> ALPHA???
>> If I divide your score by the number of elements, you get 56,768 points
> per
>> element, while I get 198,071 points per element. That's 3.4 times, now add
> ???
>> for huge power difference and you get maybe 10x more. Something like 15 dB
>> overall benefit of Vs vs. Ys.
>> So who sucks? Yagis or verticals?  (:-)
>> Hi Kenny, compliments to your steamrolling of records with fishing poles
> in
>> the sand, I am right behind you, still arming :-)
>> Oh well, use whatever turns you on, just don't dump on my beechy verticals
>> and swimsuit.
>> 73 HNY
>> Yuri,
>> www.K3BU.us
>> www.computeradio.us home of Dream Radio One
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