[CQ-Contest] remote use of Skimmer data

[Dick Green WC1M]

This part of the Skimmer debate is of great interest to me.

As the rules are currently written, all transmitting and receiving equipment
must be inside the magic circle. Presumably, this refers to equipment
controlled by one or more persons operating the station. The rules don't
explicitly say that, but if this is not the correct interpretation, then
packet spots wouldn't be legal because they originate from remote receivers.
The exception has to be that the receivers from which packet spots originate
are under the control of operators other than the operator who receives the
spot.

If this is a correct interpretation, then the same logic should apply to a
remote Skimmer feeding spots into the packet network. It's legal, provided
the receiver is controlled by an operator other than the one who receives
the spot. 

So far, so good?

But if I setup one or more of my own remote receivers with Skimmer, and
control them myself through the Internet, they're not legal under the rules.
The interpretation of the rules cited above, which exempts remote receivers
run by other operators, doesn't apply in this case. K1TTT says it's OK
because they're just spotting. But the rules don't say anything about remote
receivers being allowed if they're used only to generate spots. They're not
allowed, period. As I said above, the only way we can rationalize the remote
receivers used for packet spots is that they're under someone else's
control. In my example, that's not the case.

It would seem that we have to do one of the following:

1) Allow remote Skimmer spots only from receivers controlled by other ops
(i.e., just like packet.)
2) Explicitly allow remote Skimmer spots from receivers controlled by
anyone, but disallow non-spot information
3) Allow remote receivers in categories in which Skimmer is allowed.

I'm sure there are other alternatives. These are just the ones that occur to
me right now.

Interesting conundrum.

73, Dick WC1M

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Robbins K1TTT [mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net]
> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:23 AM
> To: 'Pete Smith'; CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] remote use of Skimmer data
> 
> The spots of stations calling cq are exactly equivalent to human
> entered dx
> spots from the same station, you can not tell them apart (unless you
> do
> busted call analysis on them at this point)... as has even been argued
> by
> many on the side that argues that spots are assistance.    The concept
> of a
> remote receiver comes in if you try to use the non-cq spots to 'hear'
> stations calling you.  While I can't believe that would really be much
> of a
> help, I do believe it would fall under the category of a remote
> receiver
> rather than dx alerting.
> 
> I think there is definitely significant value to any multi-op in that
> it
> will fill in the band map more completely than human filtered spots.
> Humans
> tend to only spot interesting stuff, but for those trying to maximize
> scores
> you need to see new qso's as well as new multipliers... and even
> common
> multipliers on rare bands.  As I also have pointed out, skimmer spots
> WILL
> end up in the normal spotting network once the filtering and logistics
> have
> been worked out.  Some nodes already offer them on a limited basis.
> 
> 
> David Robbins K1TTT
> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
> web: http://www.k1ttt.net
> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com [mailto:cq-contest-
> > bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Pete Smith
> > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:47
> > To: CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > Subject: [CQ-Contest] remote use of Skimmer data
> >
> > Since Hal, N4GG posted his ingenious "what-if" yesterday, I have
> tried in
> > vain to think of a legitimate use for data derived via Telnet from a
> > remote
> > CW Skimmer.  Barring evidence of such a use, or even evidence of
> > significant value to Unlimited class and multi-op stations, I'm
> inclined
> > to
> > suggest a simple, blanket ban on use of such data, which to me is
> > tantamount to the use of a remote receiver anyway.
> >
> > Meantime, if you want to know what Skimmers in other areas are
> hearing,
> > check out http://skimmer.dxwatch.com .  Better yet, get on the site,
> and
> > call CQ - to see if *you're* being heard in Europe or elsewhere.
> >
> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> 
> 
>