[CQ-Contest] CQ WW Update

[w5ov at w5ov.com]

Dave,

I'm afraid I am not capable of communicating with you.

I apologize for my verbal inadequacies.

73,

Bob W5OV


>
>> An opinion that a skimmer receiver should not count is irrelevant as the
>> rule precludes all receivers. There is no exemption for a receiver that
>> might have a skimmer or equivalent connected to it.
>
> I assume that 'precludes' should be 'includes'??  assuming that is correct
> then should not any receiver attached to a person who is putting spots on
> the 'human' spotting network is included as a receiver being used by my
> station?  if so, my station now has a radius of some 19000km or so.
> obviously that can't be the intention.
>
> So if connecting a whole bunch of those receivers into an aggregator like
> RBN makes them OK to use, but connecting to a single one that is not
> somehow
> magically 'public' is not ok?  Even if that one spot source could also
> somehow be extracted from the aggregate stream?
>
>
> David Robbins K1TTT
> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
> web: http://www.k1ttt.net
> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: w5ov at w5ov.com [mailto:w5ov at w5ov.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 17:08
>> To: K1TTT
>> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com; questions at cqww.com
>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] CQ WW Update
>>
>>
>> Again,
>>
>> The rule says:
>>
>> 3. All transmitters and receivers used by the entrant must be located
>> within a single 500-meter diameter circle or within the property limits
>> of
>> the station licensee's address, whichever is greater.
>>
>> 4. All antennas used by the entrant must be physically connected by
>> wires
>> to the transmitters and receivers used by the entrant.
>>
>> An opinion that a skimmer receiver should not count is irrelevant as the
>> rule precludes all receivers. There is no exemption for a receiver that
>> might have a skimmer or equivalent connected to it.
>>
>> Obviously, the purpose of this is to make at least some attempt to keep
>> the playing field level by not allowing a station to deploy equipment
>> elsewhere that would only be used by that station - regardless of what
>> category that station is in.
>>
>> Spotting networks and the like (which are public in nature but not
>> defined
>> as such in the rules) are specifically exempted and allowed by rule for
>> Single Op Assisted and all multi-op categories.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Bob W5OV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > No, the MOST important part of this is that skimmers providing
>> spotting
>> > information ARE NOT 'remote receivers'.  They do not let you make
>> contacts
>> > better by hearing the stations you are making contacts with... and
>> thus
>> > should NOT covered by the 500m circle requirement for receivers and
>> > transmitters.
>> >
>> > Use of brand names like 'Reverse Beacon Network' and even 'CW Skimmer'
>> > should be avoided at all cost.
>> >
>> > Adding in the 'public' requirement will open all sorts of new
>> questions.
>> > Specifically how 'public' does 'public' have to be?  Is someone going
>> to
>> > set
>> > up a registry that all skimmers and cluster nodes have to be in before
>> > they
>> > can be used in cqww?  Or does publishing to a club newsletter or
>> mailing
>> > list make it 'public'?  if so, does publishing to a mailing list of
>> local
>> > operators make it 'public'?  if so, how big does that mailing list
>> have
>> to
>> > be?  And then of course, who is going to enforce that?
>> >
>> >
>> > David Robbins K1TTT
>> > e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
>> > web: http://www.k1ttt.net
>> > AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Bob Naumann [mailto:W5OV at W5OV.COM]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 13:49
>> >> To: 'K1TTT'; cq-contest at contesting.com
>> >> Cc: questions at cqww.com
>> >> Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] CQ WW Update
>> >>
>> >> The focus of this discussion has been directed at the least important
>> >> part
>> >> of the announcement.
>> >>
>> >> The most important part is:
>> >>
>> >> *Remote skimmers (beyond the 500m station circle) are *not permitted
>> for
>> >> any
>> >> category,*
>> >>
>> >> Remote skimmers in this context being "private" or deployed by one
>> >> station
>> >> in any category for its own use which would violate the 500m circle
>> >> rule.
>> >> Again, the point is that remote stuff is not permitted!!!
>> >>
>> >> I think it is fair to conclude that the listing of RBN is intended to
>> be
>> >> as
>> >> a generic example - it is not exclusionary of other similar
>> technology
>> >> "public" spotting network systems.
>> >>
>> >> I also think that the initial wording was chosen and intended to be
>> >> generic
>> >> without knowledge that by listing RBN was using a "brand name" and
>> >> conveyed
>> >> the exclusionary permission of only one specific spotting network.
>> >>
>> >> Let's try re-wording it this way:
>> >>
>> >> C. Remote skimmers (beyond the 500m station circle) are not permitted
>> >> for
>> >> any category,
>> >> except for a Reverse Beacon Network (RBN or similar publicly
>> available
>> >> aggregated skimmer-like system spotting network).
>> >> Utilization of an RBN (or similar publicly available aggregated
>> skimmer-
>> >> like
>> >> system) is permitted for all Multi-Operator
>> >> classes as well as for the Single Operator-Assisted categories ONLY.
>> If
>> >> you
>> >> are a single op entry and access
>> >> a Reverse Beacon Network (or similar publicly available aggregated
>> >> skimmer-like system), you MUST submit your log as ASSISTED.
>> >>
>> >> I'm confident that is what the announcement was intending to convey
>> and
>> >> I
>> >> hope that helps.
>> >>
>> >> 73,
>> >>
>> >> Bob W5OV
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com
>> >> [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of K1TTT
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:16 AM
>> >> To: cq-contest at contesting.com
>> >> Cc: questions at cqww.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] CQ WW Update
>> >>
>> >> After I first sent this question k3est replied that he was traveling
>> and
>> >> forwarded the request to "others"...  how about it "others"?  can we
>> >> proceed
>> >> with using skimmers the way we have in other contests or are you
>> going
>> >> to
>> >> stick by this new weird distinction between the RBN and other sources
>> of
>> >> skimmer spots?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> David Robbins K1TTT
>> >> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
>> >> web: http://www.k1ttt.net
>> >> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: David Robbins [mailto:k1ttt at verizon.net]
>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 13:20
>> >> > To: cq-contest at contesting.com
>> >> > Cc: questions at cqww.com
>> >> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] CQ WW Update
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > *C. *Remote skimmers (beyond the 500m station circle) are *not
>> >> permitted
>> >> > for
>> >> > any category,* except for the *Reverse Beacon Network (RBN).*
>> >> *Utilization
>> >> > of the RBN is permitted for all Multi-Operator classes as well as
>> for
>> >> the
>> >> > Single Operator-Assisted categories ONLY.* If you are a single op
>> >> entry
>> >> > and
>> >> > access the Reverse Beacon Network, *you MUST submit your log as
>> >> > ASSISTED.***
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > What makes the RBN unique that allows it but not direct access to
>> >> other
>> >> > skimmer servers?  Should I block all access to my skimmer server,
>> or
>> >> > monitor who is connected to report them to the committee???  I
>> think
>> >> there
>> >> > is at least one other skimmer aggregator at ve7cc, is that one not
>> >> allowed
>> >> > but RBN is?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
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>> >
>>
>
>
>
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