[CQ-Contest] Determining ASSISTED vs NON-ASSISTED -- was: =>RE:Chea

[Bob Naumann]

Mike,

I would suggest that you go back and read the earlier messages to see why I
have an issue with your criticism of my comments. NOTHING I said has
ANYTHING to do with what you are claiming I said about notes/corrections
after the contest.

My comments were focused on a hypothetical situation presented to me in
which an operator *did not log anything at all* during the contest and just
operated while recording the contest. After the contest was over, he
listened to the recording and transcribed what had happened and created the
log - after the contest had ended. It is this initial creation of the log
after the contest that I have an issue with. It is my opinion that logging
is part of operating the contest, and it should be done during the contest
and not after the contest has ended.

It is this specific scenario that my comments were directed to - it had
nothing whatsoever to do with someone taking notes and using them to correct
their log (created during the contest) afterwards.

Again, just to be very clear, I consider note-taking and the use of them to
correct your log after the contest not only as acceptable, but I consider it
excellent operating technique. If one does not use notes to correct his
errors during the contest, I consider that sloppy operating. I am in 100% in
favor of notes being used to correct errors after the contest.

Does that clear up your concerns on the matter?

73,

Bob W5OV

-----Original Message-----
From: cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 9:46 PM
To: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Determining ASSISTED vs NON-ASSISTED -- was:
=>RE:Chea

So when people have opinions that differ from your own it is considered 
complaining?  I believe you made a number of comments that everything 
needs to be done in the contest period which ends at 2359:59.  Now you 
seemed to have changed your stance.  It is perfectly acceptable  for 
people to have differing opinions and the discussions following are 
called a debate.  If you really cared about other contesters thoughts 
about the subject you would not use derogatory comments such as complaining.

Are you a part of the problem or a part of the solution?

W0MU-Mike

J6/W0MU November 21 - December 1 2011 CQ WW DX CW
W0MU-1 CC Cluster w0mu.net


On 10/1/2011 3:50 PM, Bob Naumann wrote:
> I'm not sure what is causing all of this, but none of what W0MU or W8JI
are
> complaining about was in any of what I said originally.
>
> I made no comment whatsoever about notes or using them to fix things -
which
> by the way, I have no problem with and to me, they are part of prudent
> operating.
>
> So, you guys can all relax. Go work some Pacific DXpeditions instead. T32C
> and 3D2R are very active.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com
> [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 5:45 PM
> To: Bill Coleman; Mike Fatchett W0MU
> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Determining ASSISTED vs NON-ASSISTED -- was:
> =>RE:Chea
>
> I think the goal should be to enjoy making things as difficult and
> complicated as we possibly can, and making sure the fewest number of
people
> possible have a good time or any fun.
>
> Why should anyone be allowed to make a note when they make an entry
mistake,
>
> or operate if anything is messing up that would require notes? What we
> should do is have logging programs that are uneditable, and require a key
or
>
> password  from someone in authority to change, or the whole entry is
tossed.
>
> That stops the whole problem.
>
>
>> On Sep 28, 2011, at 6:14 PM, Mike Fatchett W0MU wrote:
>>> Bob,
>>> I think this is a big stretch.  The contest period to me is the period
>>> of time where valid contacts can be made.
>>> What you are suggesting is at the end of the contest much like the Iowa
>>> Tests of Basic Skills put your pencil down and you are done.  At the end
>>> of the contest all loggers will lock down the log and you can't change
>>> it.  I don't think this is the intent of CQ or ARRL.  We all make
>>> mistakes in the heat of battle.  Most believe that obvious errors or
>>> notes can be addressed after the contest period has ended.
>> It's not unusual for me to run into situations in a contest where I note
>> something that needs to be fixed. Like in NAQP where I obviously logged
>> someone's name incorrectly on another band, or have someone who gives me
>> enough duplicate contact information so I can fix his callsign in the
>> previous QSO.
>>
>> I don't always have time right at that moment to fix the log entry. I
keep
>> a pad of paper handy to write things down. If I have time during the
>> contest, I'll follow the note and make the fixes. However, if the contest
>> is going really well, I won't have time to execute my note until after
the
>> contest.
>>
>> I don't consider this "cheating" in any way. I'm using the information
>> gathered during the contest to fix my log.
>>
>> Back in the old days of paper logs, it wasn't unusual for people to
>> re-write their logs before submission. In the course of that process,
>> innumerable  little issues would be fixed. Certainly a note such as the
>> ones mentioned above would be followed.
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