[CQ-Contest] Ethics of operating overtime in SS

Wed Oct 30 07:42:55 EDT 2013

OK - here's what it actually says:

>From SS rules:

2.4. All entries may operate no more than 24 of the 30 hours.

2.5. Off periods may not be less than 30 minutes in length.

2.6. Times off and on must be clearly noted in paper logs. In
electronically-submitted Cabrillo logs, off-times are calculated by the
log-checking software.

2.7. Listening time counts as operating time.

>From the Contesting FAQ:

** Nothing is said about time limits.

And, from the ARRL General rules for all contests, and also from the ARRL
general rules for HF contest, nothing is said about time limits.

In my opinion, a station's "entry" consists of no more than 24 hours of
operation.  If they operate more, it is not part of the "entry" and
therefore, it doesn't count towards that entry's score. 

Perhaps, the rule should be as follows:

2.4. All entries may operate no more than 24 of the 30 hours *to count
towards that entry's final score*.

This is how I interpret 2.4 as it is written today.

While there's nothing in the rules that says "a station may operate for more
than 24 hours but only the first 24 hours count", likewise, there is nothing
in the rules that stipulates that if someone were to continue to operate it
would somehow negate their 24 hour entry nor do the rules state that such
"over-24-hour" qsos would be invalid for others contacting the
"over-24-hour" operator.

So, should the rules be clarified - perhaps.

Is this really a major issue?  No, it's not.

Likewise, the annually repeated debate about whether you should use your
real check or a number you happen to like is equally silly.

Back to net.

73,

Bob W5OV

-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:57 AM
To: w5gn at mxg.com
Cc: Radio K0HB; 'CQ Contest'
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Ethics of operating overtime in SS

Two posters that are willing to address the issue has spoken on a 
reflector that is not encompassing of all contesters.

Please site specific examples from the rules posted at the ARRL official 
site   http://www.arrl.org/sweepstakes  that says that operations over 
24 hours are permitted.

I will quote again from the front page of the OFFICIAL Sweepstakes site 
under OPERATING TIME.

"All stations may operate no more than 24 of the 30 hours."

This is as clear as it can get.  This is the official published rules 
from the ARRL website.  Please detail how it would be acceptable to 
continue to operate after your 24 hours are up.

The clear reading of the RULES says that operation over 24 hours is NOT 
allowed.

Mike W0MU

On 10/29/2013 9:39 AM, w5gn at mxg.com wrote:
> An intelligent reading of the RULES, which only two posters seem to be
unable to do,
> show they ONLY address the SCORING and not what you can do with respect to
operating
> hours.
>
> Plus we have already had a posting (prior to MANY of YOUR recent posts,
Mike) that
> cited exactly how the ARRL processing of the log works, which legalizes
any contacts
> (NOT FOR YOUR SCORE) after the 24 hours of SCORED QSOs have been counted.
>
> As K0HB pointed out, sea-lawyering is not needed here.
>
> 73
>
> Barry, EI/W5GN
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
W0MU Mike Fatchett
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 9:51 AM
> To: w5gn at mxg.com; 'Radio K0HB'; CQ Contest
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Ethics of operating overtime in SS
>
> Can you please site the misinformation in my post?
>
> Can you site the rules that allow you to operate more than 24 hours in
sweepstakes?  Where is the written official notification to all contesters
that this is now an accepted practice?  The sponsor stated an opinion to a
select individual or group.  If the rules have changed then simply update
them on the website so EVERYONE is aware of it.
>
> Mike W0MU
>
> On 10/29/2013 6:25 AM, w5gn at mxg.com wrote:
>> I agree that MU is more interested in spouting misinformation that
>> sharing useful comments, and sealawyering is the appropriate label,
>> when he tries to pick apart the rules for scoring to create his own
>> constraints that the sponsor has clearly defined don't exist.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf
>> Of Radio K0HB
>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 6:36 PM
>> To: W0MU Mike Fatchett
>> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Ethics of operating overtime in SS
>>
>> The contest sponsor has stated that you can operate beyond 24 hours but
only your first 24 hours will be scored.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thus there is no competitive reward to the station which operates more
than 24 hours, yet if a player elects to continue to dispense Q's
(especially in a scarce mult such as VE4) it is a benefit to other players.
There is no downside that I can discern, other than the overtime station may
actually boost the score of a direct competitor, thus disadvantage
themselves.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The sea-lawyering in protest puzzles me, particularly when the sponsor
has blessed the practice.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, de Hans, K0HB
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 6:19 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu at w0mu.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> The rules are pretty clear.  Apparently what they are doing wit the
>>> logs is contrary to the rules.  Maybe the rules should be more
>>> clearly written.  Why have rules that you don't enforce?
>>> It is pretty clear that the rules say to operate 24 of the 30. They
>>> do not say if you operate more than 24 hours your score will be
>>> determined by the first 24 hours of operation.
>>> So what is it ARRL?
>>> Mike W0MU
>>> On 10/28/2013 2:24 PM, Ed Muns wrote:
>>>> It may be against your interpretation of the rules but it is how the
>>>> ARRL handles the logs.
>>>>
>>>> Ed W0YK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kelly VE4XT wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That might work for WW with a 'classic' overlay, but it's against
>>>> the rules in SS. They specifically say off time is 'without operating.'
>>>>
>>>> 2.4. All entries may operate no more than 24 of the 30 hours.
>>>> 2.5. Off periods may not be less than 30 minutes in length.
>>>> 2.6. Times off and on must be clearly noted in paper logs. In
>>>> electronically-submitted Cabrillo logs, off-times are calculated by
>>>> the log-checking software.
>>>> 2.7. Listening time counts as operating time.
>>>>
>>>> When your 24 hours are up, they're up. The rule was designed that
>>>> way to prevent operators from working the entire contest and only
>>>> claiming credit for the best 24.
>>>>
>>>> There's no provision for operating more than 24 hours and only
>>>> claiming 24 hours, nor is there a provision for leaving the receiver
>>>> on so as not to miss a band opening.
>>>>
>>>> Which doesn't mean you cannot start a separate entry by operating at
>>>> a different location under a different call sign and starting at
>>>> zero QSOs and zero mults.
>>>>
>>>> 73, kelly
>>>> ve4xt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/28/13 12:44 PM, "Ed Muns" <w0yk at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Please don't submit two logs under the same callsign, each from a
>>>> different
>>>>> part of the contest period.  The most recent submitted log will
>>>>> replace
>>>> all
>>>>> prior logs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead, include all QSOs in one log and let the log check software
>>>>> score the first 24 hours.  No one is penalized for operating beyond
>>>>> a time
>>>> limit.
>>>>> The additional QSOs are not counted in your score, but they are
>>>>> needed to verify the other logs.  Any QSO left out will cause a NIL
>>>>> in the other
>>>> log.
>>>>> Ed W0YK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans K0HB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Submit a log for the first 24 hours; then a second check log for
>>>>> the remaining Q's.  Who would fault the ethics of that?
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>>>
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