[CQ-Contest] Ethics of operating overtime in SS

Wed Oct 30 09:35:29 EDT 2013

Mike,

You have already spent more time on this non-issue than you have spent 
operating SS in the past 5 years. The ARRL scores database shows that in 
the previous 5 years (10 SS contests - phone + CW), you operated once 
for a total of 10 hours.

Hope to see you this weekend, as well as two weekends later.

73,
Steve, N2IC

On 10/29/2013 09:57 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
> Two posters that are willing to address the issue has spoken on a
> reflector that is not encompassing of all contesters.
>
> Please site specific examples from the rules posted at the ARRL official
> site http://www.arrl.org/sweepstakes that says that operations over 24
> hours are permitted.
>
> I will quote again from the front page of the OFFICIAL Sweepstakes site
> under OPERATING TIME.
>
> "All stations may operate no more than 24 of the 30 hours."
>
> This is as clear as it can get. This is the official published rules
> from the ARRL website. Please detail how it would be acceptable to
> continue to operate after your 24 hours are up.
>
> The clear reading of the RULES says that operation over 24 hours is NOT
> allowed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike W0MU
>
> On 10/29/2013 9:39 AM, w5gn at mxg.com wrote:
>> An intelligent reading of the RULES, which only two posters seem to be
>> unable to do,
>> show they ONLY address the SCORING and not what you can do with
>> respect to operating
>> hours.
>>
>> Plus we have already had a posting (prior to MANY of YOUR recent
>> posts, Mike) that
>> cited exactly how the ARRL processing of the log works, which
>> legalizes any contacts
>> (NOT FOR YOUR SCORE) after the 24 hours of SCORED QSOs have been counted.
>>
>> As K0HB pointed out, sea-lawyering is not needed here.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Barry, EI/W5GN
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf
>> Of W0MU Mike Fatchett
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 9:51 AM
>> To: w5gn at mxg.com; 'Radio K0HB'; CQ Contest
>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Ethics of operating overtime in SS
>>
>> Can you please site the misinformation in my post?
>>
>> Can you site the rules that allow you to operate more than 24 hours in
>> sweepstakes? Where is the written official notification to all
>> contesters that this is now an accepted practice? The sponsor stated
>> an opinion to a select individual or group. If the rules have changed
>> then simply update them on the website so EVERYONE is aware of it.
>>
>> Mike W0MU
>>
>> On 10/29/2013 6:25 AM, w5gn at mxg.com wrote:
>>> I agree that MU is more interested in spouting misinformation that
>>> sharing useful comments, and sealawyering is the appropriate label,
>>> when he tries to pick apart the rules for scoring to create his own
>>> constraints that the sponsor has clearly defined don't exist.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf
>>> Of Radio K0HB
>>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 6:36 PM
>>> To: W0MU Mike Fatchett
>>> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Ethics of operating overtime in SS
>>>
>>> The contest sponsor has stated that you can operate beyond 24 hours
>>> but only your first 24 hours will be scored.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thus there is no competitive reward to the station which operates
>>> more than 24 hours, yet if a player elects to continue to dispense
>>> Q's (especially in a scarce mult such as VE4) it is a benefit to
>>> other players. There is no downside that I can discern, other than
>>> the overtime station may actually boost the score of a direct
>>> competitor, thus disadvantage themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The sea-lawyering in protest puzzles me, particularly when the
>>> sponsor has blessed the practice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 73, de Hans, K0HB
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 6:19 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu at w0mu.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The rules are pretty clear. Apparently what they are doing wit the
>>>> logs is contrary to the rules. Maybe the rules should be more
>>>> clearly written. Why have rules that you don't enforce?
>>>> It is pretty clear that the rules say to operate 24 of the 30. They
>>>> do not say if you operate more than 24 hours your score will be
>>>> determined by the first 24 hours of operation.
>>>> So what is it ARRL?
>>>> Mike W0MU
>>>> On 10/28/2013 2:24 PM, Ed Muns wrote:
>>>>> It may be against your interpretation of the rules but it is how the
>>>>> ARRL handles the logs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed W0YK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kelly VE4XT wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That might work for WW with a 'classic' overlay, but it's against
>>>>> the rules in SS. They specifically say off time is 'without
>>>>> operating.'
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.4. All entries may operate no more than 24 of the 30 hours.
>>>>> 2.5. Off periods may not be less than 30 minutes in length.
>>>>> 2.6. Times off and on must be clearly noted in paper logs. In
>>>>> electronically-submitted Cabrillo logs, off-times are calculated by
>>>>> the log-checking software.
>>>>> 2.7. Listening time counts as operating time.
>>>>>
>>>>> When your 24 hours are up, they're up. The rule was designed that
>>>>> way to prevent operators from working the entire contest and only
>>>>> claiming credit for the best 24.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's no provision for operating more than 24 hours and only
>>>>> claiming 24 hours, nor is there a provision for leaving the receiver
>>>>> on so as not to miss a band opening.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which doesn't mean you cannot start a separate entry by operating at
>>>>> a different location under a different call sign and starting at
>>>>> zero QSOs and zero mults.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73, kelly
>>>>> ve4xt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/28/13 12:44 PM, "Ed Muns" <w0yk at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Please don't submit two logs under the same callsign, each from a
>>>>> different
>>>>>> part of the contest period. The most recent submitted log will
>>>>>> replace
>>>>> all
>>>>>> prior logs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Instead, include all QSOs in one log and let the log check software
>>>>>> score the first 24 hours. No one is penalized for operating beyond
>>>>>> a time
>>>>> limit.
>>>>>> The additional QSOs are not counted in your score, but they are
>>>>>> needed to verify the other logs. Any QSO left out will cause a NIL
>>>>>> in the other
>>>>> log.
>>>>>> Ed W0YK
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hans K0HB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Submit a log for the first 24 hours; then a second check log for
>>>>>> the remaining Q's. Who would fault the ethics of that?
>>>>>>
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