[CQ-Contest] Fwd: CR3L Should Reconsider Submission Catagory

Kevan Nason knason00 at gmail.com
Tue Dec 8 08:53:52 EST 2015

Dave (AB7E)

“They posted to 3830 and had to choose one at that point, but they had the
option to choose either category right up until the official contest
submission deadline… Seriously ... please explain objectively how this
represents an ethical violation of any sort.”

Defining the group ethics appears to be what this thread is attempting to
do – which is independent of the rules. Since the group doesn’t seem to
have a consensus of opinion there is no way justify my opinion ethically.
I can give you my moral viewpoint though.

(The following is debate and not criticism. Caveat is because so many take
offense at these things.)

It starts with an individual’s moral value system. I respect, but don’t
share yours. Others share yours and may or may not respect mine. So be it.

No one seemed to bat an eye when you earlier wrote: “They didn't even have
to be honest in their 3830 posting since it has nothing to do with their
official entry”. You also wrote: “You wouldn't even have known what their
operation looked like at all if they hadn't posted to 3830, which is a
venue totally separate from their official entry.” My personal value system
is the apparently anachronistic viewpoint that honesty matters – in all
venues.  Particularly since there have been many previous discussions about
how we rely on our competitors integrity in reporting their contest scores
– are you ready for it?... honestly.

If someone tells me in one format that they are M2 and then later
officially enters as MM, I view that as lying. Apparently you (and others)
don’t. And even if you/they do view it as lying, doing that is still okay
since neither lying nor declaring your category in 3830 is addressed in the
rules.  (A follow on but important related point is that since it is viewed
as lying then that person or groups integrity is challenged and people will
naturally consider more seriously whether or not that person or groups
effort was legitimate in the all other aspects of the contest(s).)

Changing category also seems in indicative of a "sore loser" mentality and
we contesters don't like to think or our group being populated by "those
types of people." We supposedly display good sportsmanship and respect our

In summary, my value system views the following as being morally
unacceptable. False statements followed by a last minute change to a
different entry class simply because it became apparent you couldn't win
the one you originally intended to enter, but could a different category.
Particularly when that change is for your own personal gain and results in
someone who otherwise would have had a 1st place losing that prize.

The bit about "what if K1ABC (John Doe) decided to fire up the amp in the
middle of the contest" doesn't fly. They made the 3830 declaration early on
and later changed it.

I would like to see the group’s ethics in line with my morals. You
naturally want it in line with your value system. Since our community is
worldwide with so many different cultures and viewpoints I suspect this
isn’t going to be solved to everyone’s satisfaction though. Not even by
compromise. We will always have people gaming the system and/or cheating.
You can’t write enough rules to prevent gaming and it is unfortunately the
nature of some to cheat.



(not naive, just idealistic)

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:55 PM, David Gilbert <xdavid at cis-broadband.com>

> As long as they legitimately qualified for more than one category I can't
> see a single ethical problem with them choosing which one they want to
> declare for within the window that the contest sponsor allows.  Please tell
> me how doing so is a problem of ethics. Seriously ... please explain
> objectively how this represents an ethical violation of any sort.
> Please remember that I'm one of the few that thinks using SCP and Call
> History files are at least a little bit inappropriate (although not
> illegal, of course) for unassisted operation, and I deplore the way the M/S
> and M/2 categories have been stretched beyond all recognition by some very
> large and intricately equipped stations. I'm pretty conservative when it
> comes to my perception of what is ethical and what isn't.
> Dave   AB7E

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