[CQ-Contest] QRP cheating

Sun May 17 20:11:16 EDT 2015

Not really Trent in fact I did not take part in the TO7A "crucifixion" 
except by belatedly pointing out that during this event I was SWLing on 
160 during the time period and did not hear the activity that was 
reported.   This really does not prove anything and I admitted that. Nor 
did I indicate the call sign of an alleged "QRP" station in Puerto Rico 
who had been credited with some CQ contest world records while claiming 
to operate with 4.7 watts. One of the supporters of that station then 
outed the individual with his call sign trying to resurrect the issue 
with hyperbole by trying to put lipstick on a pig to avoid the long 
standing obloquy..

Trent your observations are as needed as anyone.  Nor do I have anyone 
on any hate lists.  I only responded hoping that in the crucible of 
debate the truth would emerge as it must.  That's all.

Herb, KV4FZ

On 5/17/2015 7:53 PM, Trent Sampson wrote:
> Thanks Herb,
>
> Saying "In all due respects" does not change the fact that you have a 
> bigoted view on something that should not be in the public arena...
>
> In Australia we would call your statements defamous plain and simple. 
> Kangaroo court...but that seems to be what is happening to this group 
> - after the successful prosecution of TO7A you appear to think you can 
> act with impunity and look for the next target on the range.
>
> No doubt I have been added to the hate list.
>
> Regards and "In all due respects"
>
> Trent VK4TS
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 18:43:12 -0400
> > From: herbs at vitelcom.net
> > To: vk4ts at outlook.com; cq-contest at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] QRP cheating
> >
> > Trent, In all due respects such a high angle sky wave radiator would be
> > nearly useless in working DX station thousands of miles away. It 
> amounts
> > to a cloud warmer A claim of the enhance signal by calling a dipole a
> > "double bazooka," assuming for a moment that 4.7 watts to this cloud
> > warmer was used as described, then how would it produce any radiation
> > angles low enough to even be heard 4000 miles away? I have a low dipole
> > here at 65 feet and I can assure you it is worthless in working any DX
> > compared to my 1/4 wave vertical. (A great RX antenna at SR periods at
> > times) I have run many comparison tests on RBN and SDR and know this
> > fact. during the Stew Perry contest I have struggled many times to get
> > serious and well known stations with great TX antennas, who really are
> > running QRP, in the log due to the increased point structure. It is
> > always a struggle to do so. Some of these ops admit calling for a hour
> > before getting a qrz partial from me and another 10 minutes or more to
> > get the call and exchange correctly.
> >
> > I admire those stations who are truly QRP who work top band during
> > contests. I eschew heaping praise on those who claim to be QRP and are
> > clearly gaming the system.
> >
> >
> > Herb, KV4FZ
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/17/2015 4:53 PM, VK4TS Trent Sampson wrote:
> > > A double bazooka at the distance you describe would have a massive 
> lobe - high angle into a QTH 125 Miles away. It would be very strong. 
> Ask anyone who has used one.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On 
> Behalf Of Herbert Schoenbohm
> > > Sent: Sunday, 17 May 2015 7:03 AM
> > > To: cq-contest at contesting.com
> > > Subject: [CQ-Contest] QRP cheating
> > >
> > > Felipe, With all due respect to your unique position I would think 
> that many would like to know what kind of antenna design devised by 
> anyone, even Eric NP3A "with a degree of antenna design" extant that 
> could produce an equal signal here at my QTH with the claimed 4.7 
> watts to NP4A's 1500 watts. This would require an antenna capable of 
> producing
> > > 25 db gain. Since my QTH is 125 miles SE of KP4 I would assume 
> that this supper antenna at KP4KE had an omni-directional pattern. If 
> you know of such an 160 meter antenna design that is capable of producing
> > > 320 times the power, or 25 db gain, it would be worth millions in 
> the communications and broadcast industry. The claim that KP4KE's 
> "double bazooka" was capable of such performance when his 160 meter 
> QRP "record"
> > > was achieved defies all known existing laws of physics. As you 
> stated "our approach has to be scientific and fair for KP4KE" so why 
> not explain to me what antenna known anywhere in the world is capable 
> of developing this kind of gain. The picture KP4KE has published on 
> QRZ.com shows only a modest installation compared to that of Pedro, 
> NP4A. At some point we can all benefit by knowing of an antenna design 
> capable of developing 25db omni- directional gain on 160 meters if 
> such an antenna actually exists. You indeed have peaked my curiosity 
> on this subject.
> > >
> > > Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> > >
> > > On 5/16/2015 12:56 PM, Felipe J. Hernández wrote:
> > > Herb
> > >
> > > It is not about changing the op, in this case Eric is an 
> acomplished Rf engineer and contester, with a degree of antenna design 
> and lots of experience in terrain modeling.
> > > So the perspective of an operator with that profile could shed 
> significant light on the overal station performance, since certain 
> QTH's have an advantage over others as well as other antennas also 
> bring that extra db, that can create an overrall better performance of 
> the station.
> > >
> > > If we are going to stay true to our intention, our approach has to 
> be scientific and fair for KP4KE.. the information about his previous 
> operations is certainly valid and the committee Im sure is considering 
> it and has considered it, since I believe he has already been DQ for 
> power claims. Im sure there will be enought ways to compare during the 
> contest.
> > >
> > > How much these records make sense can easily be easily analized by 
> looking at other zone 7 and 8 QRP stations in the past, but I think 
> thats another discussion...
> > > Lets wait if his commitment stands, he has failed his commitments 
> before..
> > >
> > > Felipe
> > > NP4Z
> > >
> > > El sábado, 16 de mayo de 2015, Herbert Schoenbohm 
> <herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com <mailto:herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com>>
> > > escribió:
> > > Felipe,
> > >
> > > I don't know how just changing the operator will prove anything at 
> all.
> > > What I know to a moral certainty is the comparison on KP4TE 
> alleged QRP signal on ground wave and that of NP4A's full power signal 
> from a great location with a superb antenna system at the same time. 
> This proved to me that KP4KE's claim of running "4.7 watts to a double 
> bazooka" when he established his published record that his QRP" entry 
> was totally bogus. The signal measurements made here of the two 
> stations in comparison do not lie.
> > >
> > > Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> > >
> > > On 5/16/2015 8:03 AM, Felipe J. Hernández wrote:
> > > To address Herb's comments:
> > >
> > > We had an honest conversation with kp4ke regarding the questions 
> around his qrp and other operations.
> > > HE has agreed to allow ERic Np3a to operate his station and to 
> show the world how his station performs in qrp, the official date set 
> by him was on wpx cw this year.
> > >
> > > Certainly we are anxious as you to make sure that these were all 
> valid entries, let's wait for wpx and see.
> > >
> > > 73's
> > >
> > > Felipe
> > > NP4Z
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >
> >