[CQ-Contest] [YCCC] Key Clicks in ARRL DX CW

Tue Feb 23 09:56:40 EST 2016

Well, I've heard a few stations going REALLY fast.  50+. Particularly the
ones that speed up for 5NN.

But I suspect the problem isn't actually key clicks as such.  Just like the
phone contests are full of all sorts of horrendously overdriven audio, I
suspect the "key clicks" aren't the result of fast rise times, but of
turning the drive to 11, and forgetting to plug in the ALC cable on the
amp.  You could tell the difference with a spectrum analyzer, but I suspect
the result would sound pretty much the same.  (Well, probably not.  You'd
probably get a really buzzy CW tone--and I didn't hear that.)

Anyway: I don't want to start a debate on whether these are "key clicks"
strictly speaking or something else.  Certainly a problem, though. And I am
very, very tempted to start using 5NNX as a signal report.  What would the
contest committee do with that?

Mike Loukides
VP, Content Strategy
O'Reilly Media, Inc.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 9:49 AM, Tony Brock-Fisher via YCCC <
yccc at contesting.com> wrote:

> Which raises the point, why do manufacturers allow a setting that will
> knowingly cause interference? If they provide the setting, and know what it
> does because they have implemented it, can't they tell how fast is too
> fast? Is there ever a reason to have such a fast rise time? Does anyone
> actually run 60 wpm CW these days?
>
> Tony, K1KP
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:33 PM, Jukka Klemola <jpklemola at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Barry,
> > K3 can be set to click.
> > Just set the rise and/or fall times too short i.e. sharp and listen k#
> > click.
> >
> > K3 owners have a big responsibility in setting the radio correctly so it
> > serves the owner and his neighborhood correctly.
> > The neighborhood in this case is Fourier transformed into frequency
> domain
> > ... hey I attempted a nerd joke in English!
> >
> > Also some other radios, like IC756Pro2 and Pro3 have this feature.
> > One Finn had changed his CW wave fall time too short - he corrected his
> > settings after a discussion about what&how to change.
> >
> > Most people do not know the implications of sharpening the signal.
> > Over sharpening is not exactly good in this case.
> >
> >
> > 73,
> > Jukka OH6LI
> >
> > 2016-02-22 15:24 GMT+02:00 Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com>:
> >
> >> Great point Randy!  The untenable fact now is that those using clean
> >> transmitters (esp K3) are clearly at a disadvantage when running because
> >> they're just sitting ducks, i.e.  inviting someone to get real close to
> >> them and click all over their run frequency.
> >>
> >> Barry N1EU
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 8:07 AM, Randy Thompson K5ZD <k5zd at charter.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The challenge is that the problem is asymmetric.  It is all good for
> the
> >>> clicker in that he gets a clear frequency.  And there is little that a
> >>> station not clicking can do in response.
> >>>
> >>> We added the signal quality rule to CQWW, but we receive only 1 or 2
> >> direct
> >>> and specific complaints after the contest.  We need more of those to
> >> gauge
> >>> impact and to know where to look.
> >>>
> >>> This is problem that is going to take a long time to fix, but it has to
> >>> start with peer pressure.  I.e., naming names publicly and often.  Stop
> >>> saying things like "S5 station" and actually say their call.
> >>>
> >>> Randy, K5ZD
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: YCCC [mailto:yccc-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Barry
> >> N1EU
> >>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 12:57 PM
> >>>> To: YCCC
> >>>> Subject: [YCCC] Key Clicks in ARRL DX CW
> >>>>
> >>>> (FYI - I just posted this to CQ-Contest)
> >>>>
> >>>> Instead of the situation improving over the past 15 years with more
> >>>> awareness, key clicks on the bands during contests have gotten much
> >>>> worse.
> >>>> I've copied excerpts from score postings from W1UE and N1EU below.
> >>>>
> >>>> Two groups of contest operators are going to be much more aware of the
> >>>> problem than others: those who run a lot (and experience the clarity
> >> and
> >>>> usability of their run frequency deteriorate over time) and those
> >>>> equipped with panadapters.  I also suspect that east coast operators
> >> are
> >>>> going to be impacted more due to stronger European signal levels.
> >>>>
> >>>> I suspect the situation doesn't bother most contesting folks as much
> as
> >>>> me.  I really think it has gotten bad enough to warrant extreme
> >> measures
> >>>> - we've got the tools to monitor/playback spectrum.  Wide signals
> >> simply
> >>>> should NOT be tolerated and operators should be disqualified.
> >>>>
> >>>> The other measure I'd really like to see is an S&P only category
> >> because
> >>>> I, for one, would like to throw in the towel entirely on running
> during
> >>>> cw contests.
> >>>>
> >>>> 73,
> >>>> Barry N1EU
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 6:54 AM, Dennis Egan <egan.dennis88 at gmail.com
> >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sunday afternoon on 40M was a true click-fest.  I had a good 40M
> >>>>> frequency, with a rate of about 80.  Gerry W1VE then nestles in 400
> >>>>> cycles up, and I started getting key clicks, destroying the frequency
> >>>>> for Rx.  I slid up to chastise him for the clicks, but when I got on
> >>>>> his frequency I could still hear the clicks- his station wasn't
> >>>>> generating them!  I went up another 4 KHz, and the offender was an S5
> >>>>> station occupying about 20KHz of spectrum with his key clicks!  His
> >>>>> station was only S6- if he could have channeled the power expended on
> >>>>> his clicks into his signal, he probably would have been S9.
> >>>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Lastly, I have to say that I ended the weekend with a bad taste in my
> >>>>> mouth from the rampant key clicks on the band and the recurring
> >>>>> experience of having my clear run frequency eventually being
> >>>>> over-ridden by key clicking neighbors getting too close, over and
> >> over
> >>>>> and over again. I'm not sure if having the P3 panadapter is a good
> >>>>> thing or a bad thing, because it clearly shows the band filled with
> >>>>> wide key clicking signals. It's really sad that the ham radio
> >>>>> community has never come to grips with this solvable issue. It has
> >>>> seriously spoiled cw contesting for me.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> YCCC Reflector mailto:yccc at contesting.com Yankee Clipper Contest Club
> >>>> http://www.yccc.org Reflector Info:
> >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/yccc
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> >
> _______________________________________________
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