[CQ-Contest] Convergence and Change
Radio K0HB
kzerohb at gmail.com
Tue May 24 15:55:11 EDT 2016
LU5DX: "You will be able to keep entering contests in the way you want..."
President Obama: "You will be able to keep the health insurance you now
have..."
LU5DX: "....even if the categories are merged."
KØHB: "merged"? The proposal is really not about a merger. The proposal is
to DELETE a category, a category which is MORE POPULAR than the "conjoined
twin" which has been selected to survive the surgery.
73, de Hans, KØHB
On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 12:09 Martin , LU5DX <lu5dx at lucg.com.ar> wrote:
> Again, personal preferences first.
> You will be able to keep entering contests in the way you want, even if
> categories are merged.
> No one will force to point and click for Qs.
> It makes sense to change after thirty years, mainly because competition is
> not fair given rules the way they are.
> Even if it is about at a zone or country level, results cannot be properly
> adjudicated, simply because the improper use of dx alerting cannot be
> proved to the extent needed.
> We have a way to eliminate a very effective and undetectable way of
> cheating and all we do is look for excuses not to do it. We base our
> propositions in our personsal likes and dislikes, or on the fact that out
> hobby also suffers of other ways of cheating like power abuse, log padding,
> ghost ops, remote receivers, etc.
> Pretty amazing!
>
> 73,
> Martin LU5DX
> El may 24, 2016 9:49, "Bill Hider" <n3rr at erols.com> escribió:
>
> I totally agree with Mark, KD4D and I am a SOA operator and I want to keep
> the SO & SOA categories separate.
> Why would anyone care to combine them after the nearly 30 years we've
> managed to keep them separate?
> I say "we" because I was in the vanguard in the 1980s participating as a
> M/S
> just because I was using packet as a single op
> and there was no such thing as "assisted" or "unlimited". I took spots in
> off the packet and printed them using my ASR TTY machine.
> Later on, back then, I was able to make a 1,000,000 point score in ARRL DX
> by clicking on the spots - great FUN!
>
> For me it's two things:
> It's more FUN for me to operate SOA than SO.
> Having two categories means more awards which equals more participation
> which equals more FUN!
>
> Simple.
>
> Bill N3RR
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> kd4d at comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 11:11 AM
> To: cq-contest
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Convergence and Change
>
> Good day, Martin:
>
> It makes sense to keep the separation between single operator and single
> operator Assisted/Unlimited because many of us believe the skill involved
> in
> finding stations to work without having a computer or other operator do it
> for us is worth measuring (and a lot of fun). The organizers of WRTC, for
> one, agree - look at their rules sometime.
>
> It is not obvious that operators who don't use the DX alerting assistance
> (particularly on CW) will do better than those who do not - THAT is what
> the
> SOs are complaining about. We don't want to be forced to use DX alerting
> assistance to compete. The same operators, using DX alerting assistance,
> will make higher scores than they do without...The CW skimmers/RBN have
> made
> this particularly obvious for CW operations.
>
> Clearly, combining the categories is all about comparing the highest scores
> for everyone and everyone wishing to be competitive will use DX alerting
> assistance if the categories are combined. I certainly use it in WAE
> (where
> there is one category) when I operate that contest.
>
> Why do the advocates of combining the categories - surely they only operate
> Assisted - want to combine the categories anyway? I understand the
> concerns
> of the contest organizers, but why do any of the Assisted operators care?
>
> 73,
>
> Mark, KD4D
>
> At this point it makes no sense to keep this separation anymore.
>
> In the end, SO will keep doing better than those who use DX alerting
> assistance, so what SOs are complaining about?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LU5DX Martin" <lu5dx at lucg.com.ar>
> To: "Davor Kucelin" <davor.kucelin at plavalaguna.hr>, "cq-contest"
> <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 11:08:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Convergence and Change
>
> What's your point?
>
> Combining SOAB and SOAB(A) has nothing to do with comparing the highest
> scores in each category.
>
> It's about eliminating the possibility of taking even a very small unfair
> advantage throughout the 48-hour period that can place a cheater above
> his/her competitors (even if it is very little above in the rankings)
>
> It also has to do with eliminating the burden and work overload that
> implies
> trying to find those who cheat.
>
> Reality is that ops who cheat have perfected their techniques beyond what
> can be detected by log checkers. Those who get caught year after year are
> those who abuse of DX clusters in a very obvious way.
>
> At this point it makes no sense to keep this separation anymore.
>
> In the end, SO will keep doing better than those who use DX alerting
> assistance, so what SOs are complaining about?
>
> They can even still use a pen and paper logs and send CW with a straight
> key
> if they want.
>
> Are there still contesters out there entering contests because they think
> they are winning anything at all, or winning over anybody at all??
>
> What in the world would make someone think he/she is winning over someone
> who is thousand of miles away, with totally different equipment,
> propagation
> and participating according to a bunch of rules that are hardly
> enforceable?t
>
> C'mon guys. It seems like intelligence is inversely proportional to egos
> among certain high profile contesters :-)
>
> Our "competitions" have nothing of real competitions. It is just a game of
> enjoyment, but if we are still going to pretend these are competitions, at
> least we can establish the foundations to make them something a bit more
> trustworthy in those terms.
>
> 73,
>
> Martin LU5DX
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 4:03 AM, Davor Kucelin <
> davor.kucelin at plavalaguna.hr
> > wrote:
>
> > CQWW SSB Top 10 scores all years
> >
> >
> >
> > SOABHP
> >
> >
> >
> > 1 EA8BH 1999 SO HP ALL 25,646,796
> > 10,253 176 692 - N5TJ
> >
> > 2 CN2R 2004 SO HP ALL 20,938,680
> > 8,655 172 668 - W7EJ
> >
> > 3 D4B 2004 SO HP ALL 20,433,438
> > 8,799 172 674 - 4L5A
> >
> > 4 D4B 2003 SO HP ALL 20,119,968
> > 8,956 169 634 - 4L5A
> >
> > 5 CN2R 2003 SO HP ALL 18,743,250
> > 8,682 152 594 - W7EJ
> >
> > 6 HC8A 1999 SO HP ALL 18,607,050
> > 8,638 175 595 - N6KT
> >
> > 7 CN2R 2011 SO HP ALL 18,518,160
> > 8,409 167 593 44.7 W7EJ
> >
> > 8 CN2R 2013 SO HP ALL 18,277,746
> > 8,370 167 579 46.9 W7EJ [Cert]
> >
> > 9 HC8A 2000 SO HP ALL 18,122,040
> > 9,160 163 547 - N6KT
> >
> > 10 8P5A 2013 SO HP ALL 17,059,840
> > 10,126 162 518 48.0 W2SC
> >
> >
> >
> > SOAB ASSISTED HP
> >
> >
> >
> > 1 9Y4ZC 2003 SA HP ALL 14,979,055
> > 8,114 137 500 - DL6FBL
> >
> > 2 P40A 2011 SA HP ALL 14,332,656
> > 7,478 156 513 43.5 KK9A
> >
> > 3 TM6M 2015 SA HP ALL 14,263,470
> > 7,057 168 667 47.9 F8DBF [Cert]
> >
> > 4 P40P 2002 SA HP ALL 12,975,732
> > 6,639 154 528 - W5AJ
> >
> > 5 EF8U 2013 SA HP ALL 12,743,163
> > 6,656 154 533 45.0 EA8RM [Cert]
> >
> > 6 NN3W 2011 SA HP ALL 11,828,236
> > 4,921 185 683 44.7 @N3HBX
> >
> > 7 OH0X 2015 SA HP ALL 11,790,240
> > 6,294 174 706 48.0 OH6KZP [Cert]
> >
> > 8 P40W 2003 SA HP ALL 11,755,443
> > 6,730 137 496 - W2GD
> >
> > 9 D4B 2002 SA HP ALL 11,567,412
> > 5,845 152 586 - 4L5A
> >
> >
> >
> > CQWW CW Top 10 scores all years
> >
> >
> >
> > SOABHP
> >
> >
> >
> > 1 EA8BH 2000 SO HP ALL 18,010,765
> > 7,555 183 634 - N5TJ
> >
> > 2 ZF2MJ 2015 SO HP ALL 16,730,788
> > 10,014 170 527 48.0 N6MJ [Cert]
> >
> > 3 CR3OO 2015 SO HP ALL 16,090,078
> > 8,812 152 474 48.0 CT1BOH [Cert]
> >
> > 4 P40E 2003 SO HP ALL 15,943,070
> > 7,828 169 546 - CT1BOH
> >
> > 5 EF8M 2011 SO HP ALL 15,846,012
> > 7,873 160 531 48.0 RD3A
> >
> > 6 PZ5T 2011 SO HP ALL 15,673,940
> > 7,592 173 545 47.4 VE3DZ
> >
> > 7 CR3E 2012 SO HP ALL 15,221,316
> > 7,275 170 556 48.0 CT1BOH [Cert]
> >
> > 8 CR3E 2011 SO HP ALL 15,151,668
> > 7,212 168 564 48.0 CT1BOH
> >
> > 9 EF8M 2010 SO HP ALL 15,117,795
> > 7,598 158 535 47.8 RD3A
> >
> > 10 HC8N 1999 SO HP ALL 14,626,579
> > 7,001 185 546 - N5KO
> >
> >
> >
> > SOAB ASSISTED HP
> >
> >
> >
> > 1 9Y4ZC 2004 SA HP ALL 14,581,665
> > 6,576 169 596 - DL6FBL
> >
> > 2 5B/AA1TN 2004 SA HP ALL 13,715,573
> > 6,381 170 627 - RW3QC
> >
> > 3 EF9O 2013 SA HP ALL 13,530,554
> > 5,826 171 623 46.6 EA5BM [Cert]
> >
> > 4 K5ZD/1 2014 SA HP ALL 12,768,365
> > 4,993 190 697 44.3 [Cert]
> >
> > 5 EF8U 2013 SA HP ALL 11,955,126
> > 5,700 169 602 44.2 EA8RM [Cert]
> >
> > 6 CN3A 2010 SA HP ALL 11,818,159
> > 5,729 156 577 46.4
> >
> > 7 NP4Z 2013 SA HP ALL 11,341,512
> > 6,059 165 591 46.9
> >
> > 8 K5ZD/1 2015 SA HP ALL 11,275,488
> > 4,742 179 654 44.9 [Cert]
> >
> > 9 CT9M 2002 SA HP ALL 11,225,452
> > 5,181 159 605 - DL2CC
> >
> > 10 P40C 2014 SA HP ALL 11,085,536
> > 6,242 154 462 44.8 KU1CW
> >
> >
> >
> > So what are we talking about?
> >
> > Best Assisted score is way below 10th unassisted score.
> >
> > What are you than scared about to combine the 2 categorys.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 73 Dave 9A1UN
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
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