[CQ-Contest] RDXC Entry Reclassified to High Power

Wed Oct 5 14:55:58 EDT 2016

 Igor,

With all due respect, IMHO, fighting alleged "cheating" by not contacting the accused, asking him for his side of the story, and worse, simply flat out telling him he's a cheater with no allowance for other variables or giving him any option to plead his case or appeal... is as bad or even worse than someone turning their amp on and claiming that they didn't.

To put it bluntly:  If you're going to accuse someone of as serious an ethical lapse as cheating, you have to give than an opportunity to defend themselves.  You can't be judge, jury and executioner.

And yes, I speak from experience.  I once did just that in a local contest I was involved in, many years ago.  While I don't believe, then or now, that I was wrong, I did get my fingers singed for not giving the alleged perpetrator an opportunity to explain himself.  It was embarrassing to say the least, but I have no one to blame for my error (in how I handled the situation) than myself.

So in this case, I do not say that the RDXC committee is wrong... or is right.  I do say that before reclassifying or disqualifying a log entry, they at least owe the alleged a chance to explain or defend himself.  

73, ron w3wn

On 10/05/16, Igor Sokolov wrote:

Hi Kelly,
I am not arguing with every acknowledged expert on this forum. I am just 
trying to summon these experts to suggest the method of fighting power 
cheating. Are there tools other then RBN to hunt cheaters? Can RBN be used 
in conjunction with other tools (whatever) to get reliable results? If there 
are no methods of control then why do we have power categories that lend 
themselves for cheating?
Do we want to fight power cheating or do we want to let cheaters carry on? 
These are more important questions in my opinion then whether or not some 
contest sponsor were unfair to some participants.
BTW P3F was not the only one who was reclassified to higher power category. 
I am not suggesting we use HIS case. I am suggesting we use this opportunity 
to discuss how power cheating can be dealt with.
You say "To establish RBN analysis as a reliable means of determining power 
cheating — were it even possible — would require extensive, controlled 
experimentation" which I read - "we do not have reliable means of 
determining power cheating yet". Does it mean we give up and let it blossom?

73, Igor UA9CDC

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kelly Taylor" <ve4xt at mymts.net>
To: "Igor Sokolov" <ua9cdc at gmail.com>
Cc: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] RDXC Entry Reclassified to High Power

Hi Igor,

As every acknowledged expert on this forum has pointed out, so many 
variables contribute to differences in signal strength that pinpointing a 
power difference as the sole cause, based only on simplistic RBN analysis, 
is absurd.

Using an absurd approach in the absence of one that isn’t is beyond 
ludicrous. It is patently unfair.

That the RDXC won’t respond, that it apparently moved the goalposts every 
time it was challenged (from constant power cheating on all bands to 
cheating only on some bands to cheating only on some bands for periods here 
and there) certainly suggests there’s more to this than a simple 
misunderstanding of data.

It’s like the Salem witch hunt, where officials would drown suspected 
witches: if you lived, you were a witch. If you died, congratulations, you 
weren’t a witch, but sorry about that whole ‘death' thing.

To use P3F as a test case is as absurd as the drowning test. To establish 
RBN analysis as a reliable means of determining power cheating — were it 
even possible — would require extensive, controlled experimentation, not the 
persecution of one amateur.

73, kelly, ve4xt

> On Oct 5, 2016, at 11:12 AM, Igor Sokolov <ua9cdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Kelly,
> I am saying that we should treat this case as a possibility to work out 
> universally accepted methods of pinpointing power violators. That is if we 
> want to keep power categories separate. And that is if we want to stop 
> proliferation of cheating. RDXC made an attempt. Some people found their 
> approach to be incorrect but nobody yet suggested no alternative.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Taylor" <ve4xt at mymts.net>
> To: "Igor Sokolov" <ua9cdc at gmail.com>
> Cc: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 8:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] RDXC Entry Reclassified to High Power
>
>
> Igor,
>
> Are you saying that just because we have not come up with a proven means 
> to determine power cheating, we should merely accept the results of an 
> irrefutably flawed analysis?
>
> Even the chief promoter and grand poobah of RBN technology has stated 
> using RBN analysis to determine power cheating is absurd.
>
> 73, kelly, ve4xt
>
>> On Oct 5, 2016, at 8:51 AM, Igor Sokolov <ua9cdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am not going to be on any side of the argument. But we all know that 
>> power cheating exists and proliferates. It has become especially acute 
>> after the introduction of the new WRTC selection rules which allowed LP 
>> category compete against HP for the slot in WRTC.
>>
>> IMHO RDXC should be commended for pioneering the battle against power 
>> violations even though their attempt is not fully approved by some.
>>
>> RDXC can be criticized for their approach but can critics offer other 
>> reliable methods of fishing out power violators. I do not think that a 
>> 100% reliable method exists.
>> Does it mean that contest community should not pay attention to power 
>> violations? I do not think so. Otherwise, why have different power 
>> categories in the rules when these rules cannot be enforced.
>>
>> The simple solution would be to drop separation by power and have all the 
>> participants compete in one power category. But would such a radical 
>> step be to the benefit of the contest community? Would it increase 
>> participation? I think not.
>> Then why don't we as a community use this precedent and try to find a 
>> solution? Let's work out methods of verification of power cheating that 
>> would be acceptable by a majority of the participants. This will be to 
>> the benefit of all the contest sponsors where power categories exist.
>>
>> Disclaimer: I have no relation to RDXC committee and not competing for 
>> slot in WRTC. I just like the art contesting and want make better.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
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>

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