[CQ-Contest] Log what was sent

Wigi, KL0R wigi at kl0r.com
Wed Sep 28 00:48:47 EDT 2016 

I don't know firsthand what the log-checkers do, but I think it is safe to
assume that if some number of people submit logs with station X exchanging
something other than what he/she  should have sent, provided the stations
copying the errant exchange copy it correctly, and others copy it the same
way (or, in the case of serial numbers, Q 001 precedes Q 024, which precedes
057, etc) the log-checkers will give the receiving station (you) credit for
the Q if there is no evidence that you copied the exchange incorrectly. 

In Ron's example, below, 25 of the 100 logs will show zone 5 rather than 8.
I think the log-checkers will assume the issue was with the sending station,
rather than the receiving station... since there are a fair number of
submitted logs with the factual error, but they all made (copied) THE SAME
error. But the receiving stations that changed it to 8 probably won't be
penalized, either, since it isn't clear whether the sending station changed
his/her exchange in mid-contest, etc.

Where I think you get dinged is when (in CQWW) is when you work a W0 in
California and you change it to zone 4 from zone 3.

The bottom line is that anyone that submits a log, even if he/she sends the
wrong exchange, and even if their log doesn't reflect the wrong exchange, as
long as there are enough (and that number is probably pretty small) stations
that correctly copied the incorrect exchange, you will probably get credit
for it. Changing it to what you *know* it is supposed to be is asking for
trouble.

Wigi, KL0R

-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Notarius W3WN
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 6:25 PM
To: 'CQ Contest' <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Log what was sent

Well, let's see here.

Let's say that in an upcoming IARU contest, someone, hypothetically, gets
permission to operate from UN NY.  Maybe not as 4U1UN, but as 4U/their call.


But this person makes a mistake, and sends CQ Zone 5 instead of ITU Zone 8
as part of their exchange.  Obvious mistake to us experienced contesters,
but things happen.

So our hypothetical operator makes 100 contacts.  All of whom submit their
log.  And hypothetical doesn't.

So, 75 ops recognize that the exchange was wrong and correct it to what it
should be.  25 either do not, or decide to send in the contact as received.

Who is right?  Who is wrong?  Who should be penalized?

OTOH, hypothetical op DOES send in a check log, with a note that said op
made the aforementioned mistake.  Something which the other 100 ops may and
probably would not be aware of.

All else being equal, do the 75 ops who 'corrected' the exchange in the logs
deserve to penalized?  Sadly, there is no ambiguity in this second case.
They did NOT log (or changed their log after the fact) what was sent.  

The first case, though, is a grey area.  In theory, the 75 ops should (IMHO)
be treated the same way, but how would the contest organizers/log checkers
know what was actually sent?

Therefore, IMHO:  Log what was sent.  If it doesn't seem right, question it.
If the station sending the questionable report repeats the same thing, don't
argue.  Log it.  As sent.  And if it still seems obviously wrong, alert the
contest committee when you submit your log.  If EVERYONE who works this
station does this, there should be no further ambiguity.

73, ron w3wn

-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
Paul Stoetzer
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 6:36 PM
To: K9MA
Cc: CQ Contest
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Log what was sent

Why would it be a guaranteed penalty? You logged what was sent by the other
station. That's what the rules say to do!

73,

Paul, N8HM

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 6:06 PM, K9MA <k9ma at sdellington.us> wrote:

> In case an obviously incorrect or impossible exchange, it seems to me 
> the sensible thing is to delete the QSO.  Otherwise, it's a guaranteed 
> penalty for me, as opposed to a NIL for the other operator.
>
> 73,
>
> Scott. K9MA
>
>
> ----------
>
> Scott Ellington
>
>  --- via iPad
>
> > On Sep 27, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Prasad VU2PTT <vu2ptt at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > And another case where KP4BD was sending Zone 11 which I logged 
> > instead
> of
> > 08.
> >
> > 73 de Prasad VU2PTT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 9:37 PM, john at kk9a.com <john at kk9a.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I would like to know what the WW committee thinks about your statement?
> >> For example, one W6 station last weekend sent me 04 04 CA CA which
> printed
> >> clearly on multiple decoders. This is not physically possible!  
> >> What
> about
> >> the station that sends 001 OH? Logging an obviously incorrect zone 
> >> does not seem like the right thing to do and it can lead an 
> >> incorrect zone multiplier count.
> >>
> >> John KK9A - W4AAA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To:     CQ-Contest <CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
> >> Subject:        [CQ-Contest] Log what was sent
> >> From:   <kzerohb at gmail.com>
> >> Date:   Tue, 27 Sep 2016 04:49:01 +0000
> >>
> >> On another online venue a fellow held the opinion that when someone
> sends
> >> an
> >> inaccurate element of the contest exchange (ie., the wrong Zone for 
> >> his location in CQWW), that a contest operator should record the 
> >> correct
> Zone,
> >> NOT
> >> the Zone that was sent to him.
> >>
> >> I certainly would query the sender.  For example, if a station in 
> >> Iowa
> sent
> >> Zone “7” in CQWW (his IARU zone) instead of Zone “4” (his CQ Zone), 
> >> but
> if
> >> he
> >> confirmed Zone 7, then I feel that I am obligated to log what he sent.
> >>
> >> After all, isn’t contesting all about our skill at accurately 
> >> copying
> and
> >> precisely logging  what was sent to us?
> >>
> >> If that isn’t true, then why not just exchange callsigns and let 
> >> our computers fill in the blanks?
> >>
> >> “What year was I licensed in?  Damn, I forgot again.  I’ll make up 
> >> a number and you never mind what I sent, just let N1MM  fill in the 
> >> blank.”
> >>
> >> 73, de Hans, KØHB
> >> "Just a boy and his radio"™
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
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