[CQ-Contest] CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 193, Issue 20

Anthony Luscre k8zt at arrl.net
Thu Jan 17 12:20:10 EST 2019 

I would strongly suggest that you all provide feedback to the Winter FD
group at their site pointing out the negative aspects of their decision-
wfda at winterfieldday.com

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 12:00 PM <cq-contest-request at contesting.com> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: FT8 not allowed in Winter Field Day? (Bruce Blain)
>    2. Re: FT8 not allowed in Winter Field Day? (Amir Findling)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 20:38:11 -0500
> From: "Bruce Blain" <bruce.blain at charter.net>
> To: "'cq-contest'" <CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
> Cc: "'Neil Johnson'" <neil.johnson at erudicon.com>,       "'Sean Waite'"
>         <waisean at gmail.com>, <rjairam at gmail.com>,       "'Radio K0HB'"
>         <kzerohb at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] FT8 not allowed in Winter Field Day?
> Message-ID: <09be01d4ae05$4e6ddf80$eb499e80$@blain at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Do we know that the sponsors of Winter field day are part of the anti-FT8
> contingent?  If not, then I see no reason to boycott them.  Perhaps they
> have a very valid reason (or reasons) for not supporting FT8.
>
> As an occasional user of FT8 (not a fan, but I agree with Ria that there
> are those that benefit greatly from it), I can see several reasons why they
> choose to not support FT8.  But in general, I'm inclined to give people the
> benefit of the doubt.  Boycotting an activity that is good for amateur
> radio is not the answer.
>
> Bruce, K1BG
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> rjairam at gmail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 11:56 AM
> To: Radio K0HB
> Cc: Neil Johnson; cq-contest; Sean Waite
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] FT8 not allowed in Winter Field Day?
>
> In that case I think I'll stick to summer field day, then. There is a
> vocal anti-FT8 contingent. I choose to boycott them if they are
> hostile to a mode that for some has meant the difference between
> making contacts and simply packing up and finding another hobby.
>
> 73
> Ria, N2RJ
>
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 11:16, Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Darn!  I mis-spoke!
> >
> > FT8 is not allowed as stated at the top of the rules.
> >
> > K0HB
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 08:34 Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I just read the rules.
> >>
> >> As far as I can see, the FT8 mode is not specifically banned.
> >>
> >> If you can send and receive the required ?contest exchange?, go ahead
> and use it.
> >>
> >> DISCLAIMER: I am not a member of the WFD rules committee, and I do not
> play one on TV.
> >>
> >> 73, de Hans, K0HB
> >> ?Just a Boy and his Radio??
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 08:23 rjairam at gmail.com <rjairam at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Why?
> >>>
> >>> Is telemetry not an important capability we can use? This is a very
> >>> practical possible application of WSJT modes. Furthermore even by
> >>> itself modes like WSPR can help us automatically measure propagation
> >>> to measure capabilities of our stations, i.e. determining when the
> >>> band opens and closes at our location. You can even do that in FT8
> >>> where a wider variety of signals from various places arrive at our
> >>> antennas. And even going further, as mentioned, JS8Call takes FT8 all
> >>> the way to a full conversational mode.
> >>>
> >>> There are hams now who are saying "FT8 is not real radio because it's
> >>> computers talking to one another" or "it requires no skill." To that I
> >>> say, nonsense. As hams we have found new ways to communicate over the
> >>> years. We should embrace this sort of progress.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 73
> >>> Ria, N2RJ
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 22:42, Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > That makes good sense to me.
> >>> >
> >>> > Communications modes in an emergency situation must be able to carry
> a
> >>> > payload of information.  The mode must be robust enough to carry a
> payload
> >>> > beyond ?R-17? and ?RR73?.
> >>> >
> >>> > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> >>> > ?Just a Boy and his Radio??
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 15:38 Sean Waite <waisean at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > One comment that was suggested in a thread elsewhere was that
> Field Day is
> >>> > > about being able to test out our ability to deploy in "emergency"
> >>> > > situations. FT8 cannot really be used in this type of situation
> because of
> >>> > > it's limited vocabulary.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Sean WA1TE
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 3:44 PM Neil Johnson via CQ-Contest <
> >>> > > cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > Just curious as to why the sudden rules change?
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > https://www.winterfieldday.com/rules
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > D-Star and Fusion contacts are allowed why not FT8?
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > --
> >>> > > > Neil Johnson (N0SFH)
> >>> > > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> > > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>> > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > --
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>> > >
> >>> > --
> >>> > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> >>> > --
> >>> > "Just a boy and his radio"?
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
> >> --
> >> 73, de Hans, K0HB
> >> --
> >> "Just a boy and his radio"?
> >
> > --
> > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> > --
> > "Just a boy and his radio"?
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 08:26:20 -0500
> From: Amir Findling <sarlabs at gmail.com>
> To: rjairam at gmail.com
> Cc: Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com>, Neil Johnson
>         <neil.johnson at erudicon.com>,    cq-contest <
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com>,
>         Sean Waite <waisean at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] FT8 not allowed in Winter Field Day?
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAB+tm0SiVapors6_wV6JZyh_WwhzD6-2BigNeBsRysV6ih_6MQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi there,
> We are ham radio operators,  communicators,  not excommunicators!  No
> reason to ban a mode! Changes can be made to the rules to adapt to the
> limitations of FT8, and while making these changes add a multiplier factor
> so that modes that are more appropriate to emergencies would be favored,
> but FT8 users would not be excluded.
>
>
>
> I had intended to participate in the winter field day,  in a minor way,
> now I'm not going to.  They dislike a mode that many are using nowadays to
> the point of banning it,  I  will reply with a boycott of winter field day
> on all modes!
>
> --
>
> 73 de Amir K9CHP
>
> ARRL, Emergency Coordinator, Onondaga County, NY
> Radio Amateurs of Greater Syracuse  www.ragsclub.org
> Wilderness SAR www.wsar.org (ret.)
> Eagle Valley Search Dogs www.evdogs.org (ret.)
>
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 16:17 rjairam at gmail.com <rjairam at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > In that case I think I'll stick to summer field day, then. There is a
> > vocal anti-FT8 contingent. I choose to boycott them if they are
> > hostile to a mode that for some has meant the difference between
> > making contacts and simply packing up and finding another hobby.
> >
> > 73
> > Ria, N2RJ
> >
> > On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 11:16, Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Darn!  I mis-spoke!
> > >
> > > FT8 is not allowed as stated at the top of the rules.
> > >
> > > K0HB
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 08:34 Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I just read the rules.
> > >>
> > >> As far as I can see, the FT8 mode is not specifically banned.
> > >>
> > >> If you can send and receive the required ?contest exchange?, go ahead
> > and use it.
> > >>
> > >> DISCLAIMER: I am not a member of the WFD rules committee, and I do not
> > play one on TV.
> > >>
> > >> 73, de Hans, K0HB
> > >> ?Just a Boy and his Radio??
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> .
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 08:23 rjairam at gmail.com <rjairam at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Why?
> > >>>
> > >>> Is telemetry not an important capability we can use? This is a very
> > >>> practical possible application of WSJT modes. Furthermore even by
> > >>> itself modes like WSPR can help us automatically measure propagation
> > >>> to measure capabilities of our stations, i.e. determining when the
> > >>> band opens and closes at our location. You can even do that in FT8
> > >>> where a wider variety of signals from various places arrive at our
> > >>> antennas. And even going further, as mentioned, JS8Call takes FT8 all
> > >>> the way to a full conversational mode.
> > >>>
> > >>> There are hams now who are saying "FT8 is not real radio because it's
> > >>> computers talking to one another" or "it requires no skill." To that
> I
> > >>> say, nonsense. As hams we have found new ways to communicate over the
> > >>> years. We should embrace this sort of progress.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> 73
> > >>> Ria, N2RJ
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 22:42, Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > That makes good sense to me.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Communications modes in an emergency situation must be able to
> carry
> > a
> > >>> > payload of information.  The mode must be robust enough to carry a
> > payload
> > >>> > beyond ?R-17? and ?RR73?.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> > >>> > ?Just a Boy and his Radio??
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 15:38 Sean Waite <waisean at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > > One comment that was suggested in a thread elsewhere was that
> > Field Day is
> > >>> > > about being able to test out our ability to deploy in "emergency"
> > >>> > > situations. FT8 cannot really be used in this type of situation
> > because of
> > >>> > > it's limited vocabulary.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > Sean WA1TE
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 3:44 PM Neil Johnson via CQ-Contest <
> > >>> > > cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > > Just curious as to why the sudden rules change?
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > > https://www.winterfieldday.com/rules
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > > D-Star and Fusion contacts are allowed why not FT8?
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > > --
> > >>> > > > Neil Johnson (N0SFH)
> > >>> > > > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >>> > > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > >>> > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > --
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X
> > >>> > > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >>> > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > >>> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > --
> > >>> > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> > >>> > --
> > >>> > "Just a boy and his radio"?
> > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >>> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > >>> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> 73, de Hans, K0HB
> > >> --
> > >> "Just a boy and his radio"?
> > >
> > > --
> > > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> > > --
> > > "Just a boy and his radio"?
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 193, Issue 20
> *******************************************
>


-- 
*Anthony Luscre*

*K8ZT*
Assistant Ohio Section Manager for Education Outreach
ARRL - The National Association For Amateur Radio™

a at k8zt.com (best for Education & Technology)
k8zt at arrl.net (best for Amateur Radio)

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