[CQ-Contest] World Wide Digi DX Contest Results.

[cosson-dimitri]

Hello Ken,

<<<<
In some cases this is not true.  One logger makes all the decisions for you.  Your job is to sit back and watch it do its thing.
>>>>

It shouldn't be the case during contest like the ww digi ! Rules say :
".... In general, automation can occur within a QSO period, e.g., auto-sequencing through the TX messages based on receiving the appropriate RX messages. But, each QSO must have at least one operator action associated with it to avoid robotic operation which is not permitted. One way to think about it that one operator action is required for each “serial” QSO and for up to 3 “parallel” QSOs. After a set of up to 3 multi-streamed QSOs are underway, any future QSO or set of multi-streamed QSOs requires another operator action."

73 de Dimitri F4DSKLe 15 janv. 2020 8:47 PM, Ken K6MR <k6mr at outlook.com> a écrit :
>
> “Why does everyone think that the computer is in control when the operator 
> has to press the keys (Or click the mouse) to make all decisions..” 
>
> In some cases this is not true.  One logger makes all the decisions for you.  Your job is to sit back and watch it do its thing. 
>
> Ken K6MR 
>
> From: Stan Zawrotny<mailto:k4sbz.stan at gmail.com> 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 11:30 
> To: Edward Sawyer<mailto:EdwardS at sbelectronics.com> 
> Cc: Tim Shoppa<mailto:tshoppa at gmail.com>; cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com> 
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] World Wide Digi DX Contest Results. 
>
> Ed, 
>
> >>, It sounds to me like when there is a disagreement, the computer wins 
>
> Not at all true. If there is a disagreement, then one or the other gets a 
> NIL. The operator must be the one who terminates the string of 
> transmission. He either accepts the call into his log or doesn't. 
>
> Why does everyone think that the computer is in control when the operator 
> has to press the keys (Or click the mouse) to make all decisions. 
>
> Stan, K4SBZ 
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 9:33 PM Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at sbelectronics.com> 
> wrote: 
>
> > Tim, It sounds to me like when there is a disagreement, the computer 
> > wins.  So we may not be able to blame the computer, but we all know who the 
> > boss is with FT-X. 
> > 
> > 73 
> > 
> > Ed  N1UR 
> > 
> > From: Tim Shoppa [mailto:tshoppa at gmail.com] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 8:45 PM 
> > To: Edward Sawyer 
> > Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com 
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] World Wide Digi DX Contest Results. 
> > 
> > Ed N1UR asks: 
> > > Isn't the basic problem that the computer is running the show?  On both 
> > ends.  And the operator really is helpless to change that? 
> > > It's a very basic statement about what is really happening with this 
> > mode. 
> > 
> > I'm not sure we can completely blame the computer. There is still human 
> > judgement as to whether the QSO was complete and should be logged or not. 
> > 
> > But the basic human sensory perception of TU, "thanks" or knowing that the 
> > other guy must've gotten the exchange because he went immediately back to 
> > working others doesn't work nearly so well in FT8. 
> > 
> > ALSO: the way folks respond to CQ's in FT8 with not just their call, but 
> > also their exchange, and the way the CQ'er broadcasts his exchange along 
> > with his CQ, these throw very basic patterns of contesting exchanges 
> > completely out of whack. And lets folks log a Q without it being completed 
> > because the other guy is broadcasting his exchange even before he copied 
> > your exchange. Now this mistaken way of operating does show up on phone and 
> > CW and RTTY too. But only by newbies. In FT4/FT8 it's just standard. 
> > 
> > Others blame the WSJT user interface, and they have a bit of a point too. 
> > Replace sophisticated highly evolved contesting software user interface, 
> > with a point-and-drool WSJT GUI, and you shouldn't be surprised that NIL 
> > rates go up just from that. 
> > 
> > Tim N3QE 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 6:16 PM Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at sbelectronics.com 
> > <mailto:EdwardS at sbelectronics.com>> wrote: 
> > Isn't the basic problem that the computer is running the show?  On both 
> > ends.  And the operator really is helpless to change that? 
> > 
> > It's a very basic statement about what is really happening with this mode. 
> > 
> > 73 
> > 
> > Ed  N1UR 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces+edwards<mailto: 
> > cq-contest-bounces%2Bedwards>=sbelectronics.com at contesting.com<mailto: 
> > sbelectronics.com at contesting.com>] On Behalf Of Tim Shoppa 
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 9:13 AM 
> > To: cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com> 
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] World Wide Digi DX Contest Results. 
> > 
> > K4SBZ writes: 
> > >  In any case, it is 
> > > the operator who makes the decision not to log the QSO. No QSOs are 
> > > automatically not logged. And the next action requires the operator to 
> > > manually select another callsign to call or send CQ. There is no chaining 
> > > of contacts. 
> > > The problem is that the operators have become so accustomed to the prompt 
> > > to log a QSO when 73 is sent that they think it is a requirement. 
> > 
> > I originally had some thoughts like you. Folks unfamiliar with logging 
> > details or imagining a requirement for a 73 might have been the source of 
> > most of the NIL's. 
> > 
> > Then I asked Ed to send me my LCR and I looked it over. Most of the NIL's 
> > given by me or given to me, were with other well-known multi-mode 
> > contesters, not with newbies. So there goes my theory that it was newbies 
> > racking up the NIL's. 
> > 
> > It just IS HARDER to figure out whether a QSO was complete or not on 
> > FT4/FT8. All the clues that even a beginning contester learns quickly, as 
> > to whether the QSO is complete, or not complete, are simply lacking in 
> > FT4/FT8. We make our best guess based on what the computer decodes or does 
> > not decode, maybe try an extra cycle or two to see if we can tease out the 
> > confirmation we are looking for, decide whether to log it or not, and 
> > compared to other modes, t