[CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots

wigi at kl0r.com wigi at kl0r.com
Thu Nov 4 13:15:47 EDT 2021 

I noticed quite a few spoofed spots for us, and at least one spoofed self-spot. My biggest concern (and it is not really an issue in this past contest, since there were so many), is that someone might surreptitiously drop a couple malicious apparent self-spots on a competitor to try to get them DQ'd. For example, someone might spoof the call of one of your team members to spot your M/x station... just once or twice in a contest. I am curious to know if log checkers and contest officials have ways to protect for that... I am not looking for the specific method, since it might be a super-secret protocol... just an assurance that the possibility is accounted for.

As for the disruption that the spoofed spots cause, it is certainly inconvenient for both the run station and the S/P station, but it isn't like spoofed spots is a new thing... I might feel differently if the volume of the spoofed spots became so great that they outnumbered (or greatly outnumbered) legitimate spots.

While we're on the subject of inconvenient things during a contest, I wanna know what contest officials intend to do about X-Class flares and CMEs.

73,

Wigi, KL0R


-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+wigi=kl0r.com at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Barry W2UP
Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 4:58 AM
To: Steve Dyer (W1SRD) <w1srd at yahoo.com>
Cc: CQ-Contest Reflector <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots

Yes, Steve.  Keeping paper dupe sheets (and being dinged for logged dupes) were loads of fun.  NOT!

Barry W2UP

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 6:46 AM Steve Dyer (W1SRD) via CQ-Contest < cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:

> Gosh. Ken, Jim and Hans make me wonder if I can ever be a *real* 
> contester. I've only ever known computer logging, solid state radios, 
> packet spots, electronic keying, etc. The "good old days" must've 
> really been something.
>
> Steve
> W1SRD
>
>
> On 11/3/2021 16:32, Ken K6MR wrote:
> > +1   Those were the days….
> >
> > Ken K6MR
> >
> > From: Jim Neiger<mailto:n6tj at sbcglobal.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 12:08
> > To: cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots
> >
> > Oh the wonderful world of spotting.
> >
> > Again  relegated to the Department of Be Careful What You Ask For.  
> > And fondly remembering the years when all were able to 1) find their 
> > own DX,  and 2) actually could copy calls without assistance.
> >
> > Very 73,
> >
> > Jim Neiger   N6TJ
> >
> > 66 years of contest operating UN-Assisted.
> >
> >      KH7M (this past weekend where I was self-spotted at least once) 
> > KH7M ( upcoming CQ WW CW).
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/2/2021 6:05 PM, Randy Thompson wrote:
> >> Not sure self-spotting is the solution to the actual problem...
> >>
> >> Someone spammed the cluster system with cleverly designed spots 
> >> that
> spoofed the sender's callsign.  As someone who has been harassed by 
> this method of fake spots, it is frustrating.  I don't think people 
> quite realize how unprotected the cluster network is.  Anyone can use 
> any callsign to spot anything at any time.
> >>
> >> The cluster is not the banking system, but just as we need 
> >> passwords
> for every other aspect of our on-line lives, it may be time for the 
> cluster network to adopt the same.  Even if it is just for originating 
> spots.  This of course means that spots traveling from one node to 
> another will also need to carry some form of verification or validation of the originator.
> >>
> >> Randy K5ZD
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: CQ-Contest 
> >> <cq-contest-bounces+k5zd=outlook.com at contesting.com>
> On Behalf Of Stanley Zawrotny
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 9:04 AM
> >> To: John Dorr <cqk1ar at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: Steve Dyer <w1srd at yahoo.com>; CQ-Contest 
> >> <cq-contest at contesting.com
> >
> >> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots
> >>
> >> The solution has already been proposed—allow self-spotting. Put SSB 
> >> on
> a par with the CW RBN. No messy, long-drawn out technical effort required.
> Just say that it’s OK.
> >>
> >> Stan, K4SBZ
> >>
> >> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
> >>
> >>> On Nov 2, 2021, at 8:43 AM, John Dorr <cqk1ar at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Good morning,
> >>>
> >>> Just so everyone knows, the CQWW Contest Committee is taking this 
> >>> issue very seriously and is investigating the issue in great 
> >>> detail via some very smart network guys on my team. These spots 
> >>> will have no impact on anyone's score. However, as always, we will 
> >>> continue to review other cases where self-spotting is obvious and 
> >>> beyond what has occurred in this particular situation.
> >>>
> >>> 73, John, K1AR
> >>> CQ WW Contest Director
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 8:03 AM Steve Dyer via CQ-Contest < 
> >>>> cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I really hope we don't have to start authenticating to clusters. 
> >>>> The hassle to the many global users seems to far exceed the 
> >>>> gravity of the problem. Every piece of software that uses 
> >>>> clusters would have to implement whatever scheme was used. It would be a mess.
> >>>> Steve
> >>>> W1SRD
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 11/1/2021 18:10, K3IB Peter wrote:
> >>>>> Identifying bad guys by IP addresses is not a thing any more.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I can change my home IP address at will.  Good luck getting 
> >>>>> Comcast to
> >>>> tell you what IP address was on my router 3 days ago.
> >>>>> I can also attack from dozens of countries around the world by 
> >>>>> using one
> >>>> of any number of inexpensive VPN services.
> >>>>> The best way forward is for clusters to start authenticating 
> >>>>> their users
> >>>> with a simple, widely available mechanism like SQRL.
> >>>>> -peter K3IB
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> IIRC, maybe 20 years ago Dave, K1TTT did some pioneering work 
> >>>>>> in identifying self-spotters, I think through the use of IP 
> >>>>>> addresses It may be that the same techniques can be used today 
> >>>>>> - or maybe they can at least demonstrate that these were *not* self-spots.
> Dave?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
> >>>>>> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network web server at<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbeta.r
> eversebeacon.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24
> c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115056396%7
> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1
> haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=6V7wNvb8ozUbD2knfydlnkBP57qLOQHvO
> h9JKc1%2FV5A%3D&reserved=0
> >.
> >>>>>> For spots, please use your favorite "retail" DX cluster.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/1/2021 2:46 PM, Michael Walker wrote:
> >>>>>>> Wow, what a surprise.  I just went and looked at my cluster 
> >>>>>>> and sure enough.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I was running unassisted and I see that I spotted myself twice.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This is not good and the only reason is for someone to ensure 
> >>>>>>> that the cluster logging can't be trusted.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mike va3mw
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> VA3MW-7>
> >>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2319Z
> >>>>>>> <VA3MW>
> >>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2313Z
> >>>>>>> <WT8WV>
> >>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2305Z  LSB
> >>>>>>> <N2YO>
> >>>>>>>      7214.9  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2252Z  LSB
> >>>>>>> <N4SS>
> >>>>>>>      7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2249Z
> >>>>>>>     <W3MR>
> >>>>>>>      7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2244Z  LSB
> >>>>>>> <WU9D>
> >>>>>>>      7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2237Z
> >>>>>>>     <N3GT>
> >>>>>>>      7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2235Z  LSB
> >>>>>>>     <AC3LZ>
> >>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2211Z
> >>>>>>> <VA3MW>
> >>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2205Z
> >>>>>>> <KE1IH>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 1:39 PM Dave K2XR via CQ-Contest < 
> >>>>>>> cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> GM contesters.  Hope you all are resting well.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In the FRC chat room we have been discussing the abundance of 
> >>>>>>>> apparent self spots during the contest.  Many of our 
> >>>>>>>> participants who run had their callsigns spoofed and spots of themselves made.
> It seems to have
> >>>>>>>> happened to enough of us that the question was posed...   'Was it
> just
> >>>>>>>> FRC that was targeted, or was it all contesters? "
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Looking on this reflector as well as the 3830 reflector, it 
> >>>>>>>> didn't
> >>>> take
> >>>>>>>> long to see that it wasn't just FRC.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
> >>>>>>>> %2Fl
> >>>>>>>> ists.contesting.com%2Farchives%2F%2Fhtml%2F3830%2F2021-11%2Fm
> >>>>>>>> sg00
> >>>>>>>> 174.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9
> >>>>>>>> e2%7 
> >>>>>>>> C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63771470311506639
> >>>>>>>> 1%7C 
> >>>>>>>> Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJ
> >>>>>>>> BTiI 
> >>>>>>>> 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ivIW9Nn1XPNTt6BxeKNl
> >>>>>>>> N5Jf
> >>>>>>>> 5Co0%2FpE9co46pVpc0Ps%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Curious to know who else out there was targeted.  The were 
> >>>>>>>> about
> >>>>>>>> 10 cases in the chat room I was in this AM, and suspect it 
> >>>>>>>> might have
> >>>> been
> >>>>>>>> a huge problem.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Is there a way for the sysops to track down the origin ?     I
> would
> >>>>>>>> think so, but am not positive.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It would be great to nail the perpetrator, and some of us are
> >>>> demanding
> >>>>>>>> it if it is all possible.  Kind of ruins everything for some.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>         Dave   K2XR      Frankford Radio Club
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>>>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
> >>>>>>>> %2Fl
> >>>>>>>> ists.contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&dat
> >>>>>>>> a=04
> >>>>>>>> %7C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640a
> >>>>>>>> fb43
> >>>>>>>> 5aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbG
> >>>>>>>> Zsb3
> >>>>>>>> d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI
> >>>>>>>> 6Mn0 
> >>>>>>>> %3D%7C1000&sdata=Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzV
> >>>>>>>> adU%
> >>>>>>>> 3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
> >>>>>>> 2Fli
> >>>>>>> sts.contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&data=
> >>>>>>> 04%7 
> >>>>>>> C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
> >>>>>>> 35aa 
> >>>>>>> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3
> >>>>>>> d8ey
> >>>>>>> JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%
> >>>>>>> 3D%7 
> >>>>>>> C1000&sdata=Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D
> >>>>>>> &amp
> >>>>>>> ;reserved=0
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
> >>>>>> Flis
> >>>>>> ts.contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&data=04
> >>>>>> %7C0 
> >>>>>> 1%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435a
> >>>>>> aaaa 
> >>>>>> aaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey
> >>>>>> JWIj
> >>>>>> oiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C
> >>>>>> 1000 
> >>>>>> &sdata=Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D&r
> >>>>>> eser
> >>>>>> ved=0
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
> >>>>> list 
> >>>>> s.contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&data=04%7
> >>>>> C01% 
> >>>>> 7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaa
> >>>>> aaaa 
> >>>>> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj
> >>>>> oiMC 
> >>>>> 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&
> >>>>> amp;
> >>>>> sdata=Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D&reserve
> >>>>> d=0
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fl
> >>>> ists 
> >>>> .contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&data=04%7C0
> >>>> 1%7C 
> >>>> %7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
> >>>> aaaa 
> >>>> a%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC
> >>>> 4wLj 
> >>>> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&s
> >>>> data
> >>>> =Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.
> >>> contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&data=04%7C01%
> >>> 7C%7
> >>> C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
> >>> aa%7 
> >>> C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj
> >>> AwMD
> >>> AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=
> >>> Cy16
> >>> cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D&reserved=0
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.
> contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&data=04%7C01%7C%7
> C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7
> C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
> AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Cy16
> cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D&reserved=0
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
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> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
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> > CQ-Contest mailing list
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> >
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