[CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots

John Dorr cqk1ar at gmail.com
Thu Nov 4 14:04:14 EDT 2021 

Hi Wigi and others,

We can absolutely ID the spoofed spots over self-generated ones. So, you can all relax if you didn’t spot yourself.

73, John, K1AR


 Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 4, 2021, at 1:38 PM, wigi at kl0r.com wrote:
> 
> I noticed quite a few spoofed spots for us, and at least one spoofed self-spot. My biggest concern (and it is not really an issue in this past contest, since there were so many), is that someone might surreptitiously drop a couple malicious apparent self-spots on a competitor to try to get them DQ'd. For example, someone might spoof the call of one of your team members to spot your M/x station... just once or twice in a contest. I am curious to know if log checkers and contest officials have ways to protect for that... I am not looking for the specific method, since it might be a super-secret protocol... just an assurance that the possibility is accounted for.
> 
> As for the disruption that the spoofed spots cause, it is certainly inconvenient for both the run station and the S/P station, but it isn't like spoofed spots is a new thing... I might feel differently if the volume of the spoofed spots became so great that they outnumbered (or greatly outnumbered) legitimate spots.
> 
> While we're on the subject of inconvenient things during a contest, I wanna know what contest officials intend to do about X-Class flares and CMEs.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Wigi, KL0R
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+wigi=kl0r.com at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Barry W2UP
> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 4:58 AM
> To: Steve Dyer (W1SRD) <w1srd at yahoo.com>
> Cc: CQ-Contest Reflector <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots
> 
> Yes, Steve.  Keeping paper dupe sheets (and being dinged for logged dupes) were loads of fun.  NOT!
> 
> Barry W2UP
> 
>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 6:46 AM Steve Dyer (W1SRD) via CQ-Contest < cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Gosh. Ken, Jim and Hans make me wonder if I can ever be a *real* 
>> contester. I've only ever known computer logging, solid state radios, 
>> packet spots, electronic keying, etc. The "good old days" must've 
>> really been something.
>> 
>> Steve
>> W1SRD
>> 
>> 
>>> On 11/3/2021 16:32, Ken K6MR wrote:
>>> +1   Those were the days….
>>> 
>>> Ken K6MR
>>> 
>>> From: Jim Neiger<mailto:n6tj at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 12:08
>>> To: cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots
>>> 
>>> Oh the wonderful world of spotting.
>>> 
>>> Again  relegated to the Department of Be Careful What You Ask For.  
>>> And fondly remembering the years when all were able to 1) find their 
>>> own DX,  and 2) actually could copy calls without assistance.
>>> 
>>> Very 73,
>>> 
>>> Jim Neiger   N6TJ
>>> 
>>> 66 years of contest operating UN-Assisted.
>>> 
>>>     KH7M (this past weekend where I was self-spotted at least once) 
>>> KH7M ( upcoming CQ WW CW).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/2/2021 6:05 PM, Randy Thompson wrote:
>>>> Not sure self-spotting is the solution to the actual problem...
>>>> 
>>>> Someone spammed the cluster system with cleverly designed spots 
>>>> that
>> spoofed the sender's callsign.  As someone who has been harassed by 
>> this method of fake spots, it is frustrating.  I don't think people 
>> quite realize how unprotected the cluster network is.  Anyone can use 
>> any callsign to spot anything at any time.
>>>> 
>>>> The cluster is not the banking system, but just as we need 
>>>> passwords
>> for every other aspect of our on-line lives, it may be time for the 
>> cluster network to adopt the same.  Even if it is just for originating 
>> spots.  This of course means that spots traveling from one node to 
>> another will also need to carry some form of verification or validation of the originator.
>>>> 
>>>> Randy K5ZD
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: CQ-Contest 
>>>> <cq-contest-bounces+k5zd=outlook.com at contesting.com>
>> On Behalf Of Stanley Zawrotny
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 9:04 AM
>>>> To: John Dorr <cqk1ar at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: Steve Dyer <w1srd at yahoo.com>; CQ-Contest 
>>>> <cq-contest at contesting.com
>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots
>>>> 
>>>> The solution has already been proposed—allow self-spotting. Put SSB 
>>>> on
>> a par with the CW RBN. No messy, long-drawn out technical effort required.
>> Just say that it’s OK.
>>>> 
>>>> Stan, K4SBZ
>>>> 
>>>> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 2, 2021, at 8:43 AM, John Dorr <cqk1ar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good morning,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just so everyone knows, the CQWW Contest Committee is taking this 
>>>>> issue very seriously and is investigating the issue in great 
>>>>> detail via some very smart network guys on my team. These spots 
>>>>> will have no impact on anyone's score. However, as always, we will 
>>>>> continue to review other cases where self-spotting is obvious and 
>>>>> beyond what has occurred in this particular situation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73, John, K1AR
>>>>> CQ WW Contest Director
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 8:03 AM Steve Dyer via CQ-Contest < 
>>>>>> cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I really hope we don't have to start authenticating to clusters. 
>>>>>> The hassle to the many global users seems to far exceed the 
>>>>>> gravity of the problem. Every piece of software that uses 
>>>>>> clusters would have to implement whatever scheme was used. It would be a mess.
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> W1SRD
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 11/1/2021 18:10, K3IB Peter wrote:
>>>>>>> Identifying bad guys by IP addresses is not a thing any more.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I can change my home IP address at will.  Good luck getting 
>>>>>>> Comcast to
>>>>>> tell you what IP address was on my router 3 days ago.
>>>>>>> I can also attack from dozens of countries around the world by 
>>>>>>> using one
>>>>>> of any number of inexpensive VPN services.
>>>>>>> The best way forward is for clusters to start authenticating 
>>>>>>> their users
>>>>>> with a simple, widely available mechanism like SQRL.
>>>>>>> -peter K3IB
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> IIRC, maybe 20 years ago Dave, K1TTT did some pioneering work 
>>>>>>>> in identifying self-spotters, I think through the use of IP 
>>>>>>>> addresses It may be that the same techniques can be used today 
>>>>>>>> - or maybe they can at least demonstrate that these were *not* self-spots.
>> Dave?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>>>>>>> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network web server at<
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbeta.r
>> eversebeacon.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24
>> c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115056396%7
>> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1
>> haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=6V7wNvb8ozUbD2knfydlnkBP57qLOQHvO
>> h9JKc1%2FV5A%3D&reserved=0
>>> .
>>>>>>>> For spots, please use your favorite "retail" DX cluster.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 11/1/2021 2:46 PM, Michael Walker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Wow, what a surprise.  I just went and looked at my cluster 
>>>>>>>>> and sure enough.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I was running unassisted and I see that I spotted myself twice.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This is not good and the only reason is for someone to ensure 
>>>>>>>>> that the cluster logging can't be trusted.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mike va3mw
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> VA3MW-7>
>>>>>>>>>     7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2319Z
>>>>>>>>> <VA3MW>
>>>>>>>>>     7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2313Z
>>>>>>>>> <WT8WV>
>>>>>>>>>     7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2305Z  LSB
>>>>>>>>> <N2YO>
>>>>>>>>>     7214.9  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2252Z  LSB
>>>>>>>>> <N4SS>
>>>>>>>>>     7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2249Z
>>>>>>>>>    <W3MR>
>>>>>>>>>     7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2244Z  LSB
>>>>>>>>> <WU9D>
>>>>>>>>>     7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2237Z
>>>>>>>>>    <N3GT>
>>>>>>>>>     7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2235Z  LSB
>>>>>>>>>    <AC3LZ>
>>>>>>>>>     7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2211Z
>>>>>>>>> <VA3MW>
>>>>>>>>>     7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2205Z
>>>>>>>>> <KE1IH>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 1:39 PM Dave K2XR via CQ-Contest < 
>>>>>>>>> cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> GM contesters.  Hope you all are resting well.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In the FRC chat room we have been discussing the abundance of 
>>>>>>>>>> apparent self spots during the contest.  Many of our 
>>>>>>>>>> participants who run had their callsigns spoofed and spots of themselves made.
>> It seems to have
>>>>>>>>>> happened to enough of us that the question was posed...   'Was it
>> just
>>>>>>>>>> FRC that was targeted, or was it all contesters? "
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Looking on this reflector as well as the 3830 reflector, it 
>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>>> long to see that it wasn't just FRC.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
>>>>>>>>>> %2Fl
>>>>>>>>>> ists.contesting.com%2Farchives%2F%2Fhtml%2F3830%2F2021-11%2Fm
>>>>>>>>>> sg00
>>>>>>>>>> 174.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9
>>>>>>>>>> e2%7 
>>>>>>>>>> C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63771470311506639
>>>>>>>>>> 1%7C 
>>>>>>>>>> Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJ
>>>>>>>>>> BTiI 
>>>>>>>>>> 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ivIW9Nn1XPNTt6BxeKNl
>>>>>>>>>> N5Jf
>>>>>>>>>> 5Co0%2FpE9co46pVpc0Ps%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Curious to know who else out there was targeted.  The were 
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> 10 cases in the chat room I was in this AM, and suspect it 
>>>>>>>>>> might have
>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>> a huge problem.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Is there a way for the sysops to track down the origin ?     I
>> would
>>>>>>>>>> think so, but am not positive.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> It would be great to nail the perpetrator, and some of us are
>>>>>> demanding
>>>>>>>>>> it if it is all possible.  Kind of ruins everything for some.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>        Dave   K2XR      Frankford Radio Club
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
>>>>>>>>>> %2Fl
>>>>>>>>>> ists.contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&dat
>>>>>>>>>> a=04
>>>>>>>>>> %7C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640a
>>>>>>>>>> fb43
>>>>>>>>>> 5aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbG
>>>>>>>>>> Zsb3
>>>>>>>>>> d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI
>>>>>>>>>> 6Mn0 
>>>>>>>>>> %3D%7C1000&sdata=Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzV
>>>>>>>>>> adU%
>>>>>>>>>> 3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 04%7 
>>>>>>>>> C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
>>>>>>>>> 35aa 
>>>>>>>>> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3
>>>>>>>>> d8ey
>>>>>>>>> JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%
>>>>>>>>> 3D%7 
>>>>>>>>> C1000&sdata=Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D
>>>>>>>>> &amp
>>>>>>>>> ;reserved=0
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>>>>>>>> Flis
>>>>>>>> ts.contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&data=04
>>>>>>>> %7C0 
>>>>>>>> 1%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435a
>>>>>>>> aaaa 
>>>>>>>> aaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey
>>>>>>>> JWIj
>>>>>>>> oiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C
>>>>>>>> 1000 
>>>>>>>> &sdata=Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D&r
>>>>>>>> eser
>>>>>>>> ved=0
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>>>>>>> C01% 
>>>>>>> 7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaa
>>>>>>> aaaa 
>>>>>>> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj
>>>>>>> oiMC 
>>>>>>> 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&
>>>>>>> amp;
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>>>>>> .contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcq-contest&data=04%7C0
>>>>>> 1%7C 
>>>>>> %7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
>>>>>> aaaa 
>>>>>> a%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC
>>>>>> 4wLj 
>>>>>> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&s
>>>>>> data
>>>>>> =Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 7C%7
>>>>> C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
>>>>> aa%7 
>>>>> C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj
>>>>> AwMD
>>>>> AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=
>>>>> Cy16
>>>>> cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D&reserved=0
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>> C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
>> AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Cy16
>> cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%3D&reserved=0
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