[CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
Pete Smith N4ZR
pete.n4zr at gmail.com
Thu Feb 17 15:10:54 EST 2022
Bob, I'm not totally clear, but I think you're arguing that this change
will remedy concerns about the unfairness of having an RBN for CW and
RTTY, but not for phone. I agree it would be nice to have more spots on
phone, and when I operate on phone I always activate N1MM's automatic
spotting capability, but until Fort Meade declassifies their voice
Skimmer (joke), I don't see any benefit in allowing self-spotting on
*both* phone and CW.
A critical difference between the RBN and self-spotting is that the RBN
is absolutely impartial - if you're received by an RBN node, you're
spotted worldwide. Allowing self-spotting in phone will not do anything
comparable - instead, as others have suggested, it will simply reward
the investment of money and effort in off-the-air technology, and he who
advertises best will win. Do we want that?
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.
On 2/17/2022 11:16 AM, Naumann, Robert, W5OV wrote:
> Pete,
>
> All of the negative and nefarious things like "malicious spotting" you are envisioning could and may be happening today. Recently, the CQWW reported that they had resolved a "spoofed spots" problem that occurred recently. I see no reason to think that this change will lead to any more of that than we already have to deal with.
>
> Sorting through all of the global spotting data available is an enormous task. The contest sponsors are heavily burdened by all of this. If you would read the CAC's report, you'd see that they recognized this burden and how difficult it would be to split hairs over what is and what is not allowed given the proliferation of all these non-amateur based, continual, perpetual and ubiquitous channels of communication. Turn off my phone? Are you serious?
>
> A few years back, there were nearly 100 disqualifications in a major fall contest for various reasons including: self-spotting!
>
> The discussion at that time centered around how unfair that is because of the automatic spotting on CW and RTTY. Who would it hurt anyway?
>
> That mode differential is going away. I don't think it's going to make a great deal of difference, but those who have been self-spotting (i.e. cheating) for years will now have fair competition in that game. Perhaps, this will become a complete non-issue as a result rather than the end of contesting as we know it?
>
> As opined from some of the more recent generation of contesters, this is probably inevitable, and I don't think this signals the end of contesting any more than packet did, despite the clamor we all heard back then - 30+ years ago!!! Clearly, contesting has survived that change, and it will survive this one too.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CQ-Contest<cq-contest-bounces+w5ov=arrl.org at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Pete Smith N4ZR
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 09:27
> To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)<rjairam at gmail.com>
> Cc: reflector cq-contest<CQ-Contest at Contesting.COM>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
>
> Ria, I'm not frustrated... I am simply concerned that allowing self-spotting will make it much less pleasant for me to pursue my personal goals. If everyone and their sibling self spots, that will markedly reduce my chances as of being first on a spot when someone comes on a new band, which is my go-to technique. What's to stop them from self-spotting their intended run frequency *before* they come on a new band?
>
> Also, as someone pointed out, the potential for malicious spotting is great. If I want to sabotage your operation, what's to stop me from posting spots of you on the wrong band or frequency?
>
> I simply think this was not well thought out, and that the result would have been different (and better) had the wider contesting community been more involved.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
> On 2/17/2022 5:46 AM,rjairam at gmail.com wrote:
>> It really isn’t the “nobody asked us” defense. Quite the opposite.
>> There were several in the contest community who wanted contest rules
>> out of the hands of the full Board and into the hands of the CAC and
>> radiosport department. It doesn’t mean we don’t have input. It simply
>> means that we don’t have a formal vote on every contest rule change.
>>
>> As for smaller S&P stations? I’m not sure what changes for you. Care
>> to elaborate?
>>
>> I think a lot of us with smaller stations share frustrations of not
>> being able to be competitive, for various reasons.
>>
>>
>> Ria
>> N2RJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 1:05 AM Pete Smith N4ZR<pete.n4zr at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> But Ria, what about those of us with small stations who like assisted
>> S&P? Surely there should be room for those of us who don't want to
>> self-spot, but find unassisted S&P endless frustration. I'm with
>> you -
>> surely it would have been better to add a class.
>>
>> As for the Board not having voted on these new rules, why the heck
>> not?
>> Surely this isn't the "nobody asked us" defense? If the Board aren't
>> responsible for what people subordinate to you do, who is?
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
>> web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
>> For spots, please use your favorite
>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>
>> On 2/16/2022 9:11 PM,rjairam at gmail.com wrote:
>> > Hans, things progressed exactly as some of the harshest critics
>> desired it
>> > to go.
>> >
>> > But anyway, everything is in the minutes. There were no motions
>> by the
>> > Board to adopt these rules.
>> >
>> > Do I agree with them? My desire was for an “ultra unlimited”
>> category to
>> > have streaming and self spotting. I didn’t get that. I’m one voice.
>> >
>> > Do we need to adapt and evolve? Yes.
>> >
>> > But I’m glad we kept unassisted, so those who desire legacy
>> contesting have
>> > their sandbox to play in.
>> >
>> > Ria
>> > N2RJ
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 8:53 PM Hans Brakob<kzerohb at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nice sidestep, Director.
>> >>
>> >> 73, de Hans, KØHB
>> >> “Just a Boy and his Radio”™
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >> *From:*
>> CQ-Contest<cq-contest-bounces+kzerohb=gmail.com at contesting.com>
>> >> on behalfofrjairam at gmail.com <rjairam at gmail.com>
>> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2022 7:24:37 PM
>> >>
>> >> *To:* Ken Boasi<n2zn at rochester.rr.com>
>> >> *Cc:* Barry W2UP<w2up.co at gmail.com>; CQ-Contest Reflector <
>> >>cq-contest at contesting.com>
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
>> >>
>> >> The full Board does not make a motion to adopt rules changes
>> anymore.
>> >> This goes direct from the PSC to the radiosport department.
>> There is a
>> >> PSC report that is adopted (in the consent agenda) but that's about
>> >> it. Also, the CAC is actually driving these rule changes now
>> with the
>> >> PSC merely approving their recommendations.
>> >>
>> >> Ria
>> >> N2RJ
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:43 PM Ken
>> Boasi<n2zn at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>> >>> I’m not an ARRL apologist, but the CAC has been discussing
>> this since at
>> >> least a year ago, and made a recommendation for this change in
>> their July
>> >> meeting. You can look up the minutes on the ARRL website. It
>> is task
>> >> 2020.5.
>> >>> I presume it was adopted in January at the ARRL Board meeting.
>> >>>
>> >>> I am not in favor of the change, but I guess I had my chance
>> to comment
>> >> on this (like the rest of us) over the past year, and failed to
>> do so,
>> >> either because I wasn’t paying attention, forgot to, or just
>> assumed that
>> >> “they would never do something like that”. Lesson learned…
>> >>> 73, Ken N2ZN
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 3:35 PM, Barry W2UP<w2up.co at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So which contest software will be the first to add,
>> "self-spot every
>> >> 15
>> >>>> seconds"?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Seems ARRL is back on its secrecy kick. I just renewed my ARRL
>> >> membership
>> >>>> for the 52nd year. It may be my last.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Barry W2UP
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 10:36 AM
>> PY2NY<py2ny.vitor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Good afternoon.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I don't know exactly what to say or think about. My first
>> impression
>> >>>>> isn't good, including for those guys that are always "Assisted".
>> >>>>> DXCluster will have thousands of self-spots.
>> >>>>> Thanks God I'm always "no-Assisted"...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 73 DX and see you all next weekend.
>> >>>>> .
>> >>>>> ..
>> >>>>> ...
>> >>>>> --------------------------------
>> >>>>> PY2NY / SP9NY / V26NY - Vitor Luis Aidar dos Santos
>> >>>>>http://military-jeep-brasil.blogspot.com.br/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Em qua., 16 de fev. de 2022 às 09:23, Randy Thompson <
>> >>k5zd at outlook.com>
>> >>>>> escreveu:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> From the ARRL Contest Update today:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "New Rules in effect for all ARRL HF Contests in June
>> >>>>>> Starting with the ARRL International Digital Contest, in all
>> >> categories
>> >>>>>> that allow assistance (Unlimited), the use of online and other
>> >>>>> non-amateur
>> >>>>>> radio platforms including but not limited to social media,
>> live video
>> >>>>>> streaming, and internet chat rooms will be allowed. In all
>> Unlimited
>> >> and
>> >>>>>> Multioperator categories, the prohibition of self-spotting, and
>> >> asking
>> >>>>>> another station to spot you, will also be removed."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Wow. It was one thing for the VHF contests to allow use of
>> chat
>> >> rooms
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>>> telephone calls, now this is extended to all HF contests.
>> It should
>> >> be
>> >>>>>> interesting to see what unintended consequences result from
>> allowing
>> >>>>>> multi-ops and assisted competitors to spot themselves. You
>> could spot
>> >>>>>> yourself with every CQ if you wanted to. Or you can call
>> people on
>> >> the
>> >>>>>> phone and ask them to get on the air. Or send out email
>> reminders to
>> >> work
>> >>>>>> you during the contest.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> It is likely to have the most impact on SSB to produce spotting
>> >> equal to
>> >>>>>> what the RBN does for CW and RTTY.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> For an organization that has always been so timid and
>> conservative on
>> >>>>> rule
>> >>>>>> changes, the ARRL seems to have sprung this one without much
>> >> consultation
>> >>>>>> with the contest community. I assume it is in reaction to
>> the W2RE
>> >>>>>> incident several years ago in ARRL DX where he used live
>> streaming on
>> >>>>>> Facebook during the contest.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Randy K5ZD
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> >>>>>>CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> >>>>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> >>>>>CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> >>>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> >>>>CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> >>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> >>>CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> >>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> >>CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> >>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > CQ-Contest mailing list
>> >CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
More information about the CQ-Contest
mailing list