[CQ-Contest] Self spotting

[PY2NY]

Jim, perfect, like always.
73 DX to everybody, super nice hiper good weekend
from Jaboticabal SP Brasil
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PY2NY / SP9NY / V26NY  - Vitor Luis Aidar dos Santos
http://military-jeep-brasil.blogspot.com.br/



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Em qua., 13 de mar. de 2024 às 00:36, Jim Neiger <n6tj at sbcglobal.net>
escreveu:

> Mike, I take exception that "it is virtually identical to what RBN does
> on CW and RTTY".  Perhaps "virtually" is your caveat that they are in
> fact not the same?  With RBN, or packet, etc.  the CQing operator does
> not take a direct and overt action to elicit the spot for assistance.
> His action may, or may not, result in a spot.  From the outset, it was
> not his immediate intent.  All he did was to ID or CQ.
>
>    With "self-spotting", the operator clearly takes an action to "spot"
> oneself.  At a minimum, he is using a means other than a radio signal,
> e.g., computer and the internet, to solicit a QSO. How is that not
> "assisted"?  That so-called genie is now out of the bottle, and with
> deference to your "happier smaller stations", perhaps that will be the
> wave of the future?  Why are these smaller stations happier?  All they
> have to do is tune and listen.  And learn how to copy a call sign.   Ah,
> those crude, pathetic,  good old days......
>
>    Those DX stations on the end of packet spots have already witnessed
> the diminution of operator skills with endless packet and RBN spots: 1)
> the packeteer busts your call and suddenly you are a "new" multiplier to
> many because you're really ZD8Z but now you've been spotted as ZD7Z.  I
> learned years ago that one's only self defense is to QSY to a new
> frequency, and start over with your real ZD8Z call; and 2) RBN pileups
> have the disastrous effect of putting everyone (sometimes many dozens)
> zero beat with one another, and the poor DX operator cannot begin to
> decipher any calls; at least not at any rate, and everyone suffers.  And
> all of these zero beaters don't realize that they're all maybe 559.
> What a mess.  The DX operator then yearns for the sharp ops on the other
> end who've figured this out and QSY off a few HZ, and bingo: his 559
> signal prevails.  Over many years, I've learned that the JA's are very
> gifted at listening and QSYing.    If one does not believe this story,
> do yourself a favor and go somewhere rare (a double mult can be
> educational) this November and show us all how to do it.  A place with
> good propagation to Europe, and Japan, can be most enlightening.
>
> Back to self-spotting:  I believe, that a minimum, those who "need" to
> self spot should be classified as Assisted, or Unlimited, whatever it
> is.  Perhaps that will discourage some, who should know better, that
> they don't have to stoop to that level. There's always hope.
>
> Very 73,
>
> Jim Neiger   N6TJ  ZD8Z etc
>
>
> On 3/12/2024 8:14 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:
> >
> >
> > Henry or anyone confused about what self spotting does or is:
> >
> > Assisted (or Unlimited) has ALWAYS meant "QSO finding assistance"
> >
> > ie: some person or technology that tells you Romeo, P5RS7 is on 14.020
> > listening up 5
> >
> > is Assistance.
> >
> >
> >
> > Having a person (including yourself) or a technology TELLING OTHERS that
> >
> > you, yourself, K4TMC is on 14.222.2 is not assistance.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is virtually identical to what the RBN does on CW and RTTY.
> >
> >
> >
> > It actually levels the playing field (isn't that the goal?) so everyone
> who
> > chooses to use it (when allowed under contest rules)
> >
> > has the same opportunity to have others find THEM exactly like what take
> > place on CW now
> >
> > whether you all realize it takes place or not.  If you call CQ on CW, the
> > RBN will find you.  How can any of you be opposed
> >
> > to the same thing happening on SSB?
> >
> >
> >
> > Like W0MU I am having a hard time trying to understand why people think
> this
> > is "assistance" or
> >
> > having any opposition to the "self spot" (unless you really just like
> CQing
> > endlessly on SSB until someone takes pity on you and spots you?)
> >
> >
> >
> > -Mike/VE9AA
> >
> > p.s.- only ARRL and some QSO parties permit self-spotting.  The sky
> didn't
> > fall and smaller stations are much happier and the playing field is
> slowly
> > but surely getting a little more level.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> >
> >
> > Re "I still have not figured out who was damaged by this rule change."
> >
> >
> >
> > As someone who operates "unassisted" and claims to be "unassisted" in my
> >
> > submitted logs, I feel disadvantaged against those "unassisted" who self
> >
> > spot. As someone else posed a short while back, self spotting is like
> >
> > having a second radio calling CQ for you while operating radio one, thus
> a
> >
> > variation on SO2R. It would be nice to know in the published results
> which
> >
> > "unassisted" stations posted a single or more self spot. But then there
> are
> >
> > those who would use a different call when spotting themselves...Oh my,
> >
> > Pandora's box has been opened...the key tossed in the ocean...and the
> lock
> >
> > mechanism damaged beyond repair...
> >
> >
> >
> > I know I have been spotted in the past, but I don't know by whom, and I
> >
> > surely have not asked anyone to spot me.
> >
> >
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Henry - K4TMC
> >
> >
> >
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