[Fourlanders] Fw: Re: One Additional Comment on Your Digital "How To"

Fri Sep 22 08:35:49 EDT 2017

Then i misinterpreted all the chatter i saw on 1 of the reflectors weeks before contest about this debate of 73 both ways.Obviously, a number of people joining the chatter were confused, too....or maybe hardcore purists.....i dont know.
But....i errored on the side of caution in case there were any insisting on "73 both ways". 
But as Marshall pointed out....as long as signals are good then you usually are finished after the RRR anyhow
Ron
From my Samsung Galaxy S4

-------- Original message --------
From: John Kludt <johnnykludt at earthlink.net> 
Date: 09/22/2017  7:33 AM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: Ron WW8RR <ww8rr at arrl.net>, Fourlanders <fourlanders at contesting.com> 
Subject: Fw: Re: One Additional Comment on Your Digital "How To" 

Fourlanders,

I asked Marshall about exchange of 73's.  His answer is below.  Bottom line, per IARU rules a 73 is not required from either station for a valid QSO.  Sending 73 after receiving an RRR is a nice thing to do but adds nothing to the validity of the QSO.  Having watched Marshall now on JT65B, FT8 and MSK144 I understand where he is coming from and how he puts it into practice.  And it makes sense to me.  Two-way 73's can turn into what seems like an infinite do loop and they just get in the way of the next Q to no real purpose.

Johnny

-----Forwarded Message-----

From: Marshall-K5QE 

Sent: Sep 21, 2017 10:32 PM

To: John Kludt 

Subject: Re: One Additional Comment on Your Digital "How To"

    Hi John....what you have
        described is the "acid test" to see if you have a HF centric
        newbie or a real VHFer.....HI.  Somehow, the HFers have decided
        that if you don't send 73 the contact is not complete.  I don't
        know of any VHFer that thinks that way.  This is something that
        we are going to have to "educate" the new stations about.  I
        don't know how to do that....I will mention this problem to the
        ARRL guy.....

        In the VHF world, as far as I know, when one station receives
        the RRR, the contact is done.  However, the stations sending the
        RRR does not know that, so that is why the 73.  Because of the
        way I operate(DXpedition or contest), I am almost always the guy
        sending the RRR.  Rule 7, subparagraph 3, if I send RRR, you
        better get it.  This is somewhat a joke, but there is a lot of
        truth in it too.  Part of this
            works because I run at least 1KW(even for portable
            operations, like the Falklands and Zone2) and 4 medium
            length antennas or more.  As you know, the contest shack is
            8 x long yagis and full power.  

        When I am in a contest OR on a DXpedition, I send RRR and I look
        for your 73.  Of course, if I see the 73, then we are done.  IF
        I don't see it and if signals were strong, I go on to the next
        station.  If signals are weaker(a judgement call), then I might
        send a second RRR, but then I  go on to the next station in
        line(unless there are some really extenuating circumstances).  I
        don't have time to waste repeating RRR again and again and
        again.  IF the station has not received the RRR after I have
        moved on, then he can request a re-run on the EME-1 page. 
        During casual operations, none of this matters.  Just send the
        RRR several times and look on the EME-1 page.  

      SEVERAL others have mentioned this exact same
            thing.  VHFers will say the a QSO is done when one side
            receives the RRR....apparently the HF centric guys do not
            believe that.  This is another education thing.  The
            standards are just different between VHF and HF.  I may be
            wrong here, but I think I recall seeing something like this
            in a EU Handbook.  I found this in the IARU Handbook
            7.5.1.pdf, page 89.  Link is 

            https://www.iaru-r1.org/index.php/documents/func-startdown/722/

            FROM IARU HANDBOOK

            7.2.3 Valid Contacts

            A valid contact is one where each operator has copied both
            call signs, the report and a confirmation

            that the other operator has done the same. This confirmation
            may either be an "R" preceding the

            report or a string of three consecutive "rogers” (RRR).

            END OF HANDBOOK ENTRY

            Note that there is NO requirement for the 73--it certainly
            does not hurt anything, but 73 is NOT required.  

        73 Marshall K5QE

    On 9/21/2017 1:13 PM, John Kludt wrote:

      <ZZZ!-- DIV {margin:0px;} -->
      Marshall,

        First I thought your paper on using digital modes in contests
        was spot on.  Switching back and forth between Contest Mode and
        Funny Number mode to complete a Q was less than fun in the
        recent VHF Contest.

        The one thing you did not address and I am curious to know your
        through on is the need for both stations to exchange "73".  I
        have noticed you do not do that. When you send me your "RRR" and
        I send "73" you are on to the next QSO.  Given your very clear
        statement on not proceeding to the next message till last
        received it seems to me the correct sequence at the end is:

           I send "RRR"
          You send "73"
          If I receive your "73" we are done.  If I do not receive
            your "73" I send my "RRR" again.  That is your clue to send
            your "73" again.  Once I have your "73" we are finished.

        I have noticed that some station just will not let go until
        there has been an exchange of "73" and that can take forever and
        adds nothing to the validity of the QSO as far as I can tell.

        Again, thanks for putting the primer together - see you on the
        EME contest in ten days or so.

        John K4SQC/W4NH

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