[RFI] Samsung oven RFI update

Thu May 14 15:32:23 EDT 2020

Thanks for sharing this info...

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/14/20 10:51 AM, Randy Diddel wrote:
> Just an update. I reached out to file a support ticket with Samsung and they dispatched a repair tech to our home to see the issue first hand. I was able to easily reproduce the issue for him. He has been in the business for over 10 years and never has seen anything like this.
> 
> We pulled the stove out and we dragged an extension cord to another circuit to see if it made any difference. SPOILER: it didn’t-if anything it got worse with a longer power cord since we lengthened the antenna of the stove….but I humored him. He also checked to make sure the outlet was properly grounded (it was).
> 
> The tech has ordered a new main board under warranty and will be back next week to install it. I have little faith that this is the issue but I am willing to work through their troubleshooting process. I work in IT and understand the progression so I am patient.
> 
> I will share more as we work through this issue.
> 
> 73
> 
> K5RHD
> 
> /randy
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 15:32:36 -0500
>> From: "Lloyd - N9LB" <lloydberg at tds.net>
>> To: "'Hare, Ed  W1RFI'" <w1rfi at arrl.org>,	<rfi at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>> Message-ID: <000d01d623e5$7b020060$71060120$@tds.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Would alerting Underwriters Laboratories "UL" have any value?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+lloydberg=tds.net at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
>> Hare, Ed W1RFI
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 12:08 PM
>> To: Dave Cole <dave at nk7z.net>; rfi at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>>
>> I do know that Paul Cianciolo has worked with a few hams on this issue. I am
>> not sure if he made any headway on it with Samsung, but I will see him later
>> this week and I can ask. He reads most of the posts here, but doesn't have
>> time to respond to all of them.
>>
>> I am not a lawyer either, but from an FCC perspective, hams are responsible
>> only for interferece caused by spurious emissions and out-of-band emissions
>> from their transmitters.  That's not to say that a neighbor would not
>> initiate a lawsuit.   On the ARRL web page can be found information on
>> federal pre-emption of state and local RFI issues, which could incude civil
>> suit, but the nuances of law are such that a ham involved in that kind of
>> dispute is going to need an attorney.
>>
>> Under US law, there are no federal requirements for immunity, so the
>> manufacturer is off the fedreal hook from an FCC perspective.  There may be
>> other federal requirements for appliance safety, though.  Either way, they,
>> too, would be on the hook for possible civil action should a fire result
>> from the use of their product under any circumstances although federal
>> pre-emption could apply there too. Again, more work for the attornies.
>>
>> I do know that when Eaton was made aware that some of their AFCI breakers
>> were tripping due to RF, they were very interested and put two engineeers on
>> a plane from the west coast to witness ARRL's testing.  We accomodated them,
>> of course. So manufacturers can be very interested in anything related to
>> the safe use of their products.
>>
>> Ed Hare, not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org at contesting.com> on behalf of Dave Cole
>> <dave at nk7z.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:03 PM
>> To: rfi at contesting.com <rfi at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>>
>> You might compose a short note to them, letting them know of the safety
>> issue, and your fear of a fire as a result of their failure to sufficiently
>> deal with the RFI issues they clearly have.
>>
>> At a minimum, take copious notes, with everyone's name and times/dates, and
>> what was discussed.
>>
>> The problem is, if I understand the rules correctly, YOU as the owner are
>> responsible, and must accept all interference caused to your device.
>>
>> Maybe Ed H could chime in here, and help clarify that a bit. I am not a
>> lawyer, and not exposed to this as much as Ed is...
>>
>> --
>> 73, and thanks,
>> Dave (NK7Z)
>> https://www.nk7z.net
>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>> ARRL Technical Specialist
>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>>
>> On 5/6/20 8:37 AM, EDWARDS, EDDIE J via RFI wrote:
>>> I suggest you don't tell them about how you lock it as a work around
>> solution.  Because there may be some other RF  out there that could trigger
>> it too!  Ask them to fix the "susceptibility to RF signals" so that this
>> never happens unexpectedly like when you're not home.
>>>
>>> This is a fire safety issue the manufacturer must fix or else replace with
>> a new unit that is not "susceptible" to wireless signals as RF signals are
>> everywhere and that's getting worse every day.
>>>
>>> 73, de ed -K0iL
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+eedwards=oppd.com at contesting.com> On Behalf Of
>>> Randy Diddel
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 9:32 AM
>>> To: rfi at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>>>
>>> I reached out to Samsung and logged a trouble ticket with them. The
>> Chatbot/person on the other end had no idea what Amateur/Ham Radio was nor
>> what RFI was either.  After explaining it to him he repeated his summary of
>> what he thought my issue was, "So your oven is getting too hot?"
>>>
>>> A local repair company is going to come out and take a look. I at least
>> have a ticket number for the incident logged with Samsung but zero
>> confidence that they understand what the issue is or that they will be
>> willing to do anything about it.
>>>
>>> The oven is new and under warranty but, well beyond the return date from
>> Lowe's.
>>>
>>> I continue to lock the oven from the panel and it does unlock
>> occasionally. New behavior is that once locked, after I am done with
>> operating on 40M, the panel is completely non-responsive and I have to pull
>> the oven out and unplug the power to it and then plug it back in.
>>>
>>> I am going to order up some ferrite and try what others have done as well
>> and just live with it. The XYL is not interested in trying another brand-she
>> likes the continuity of the kitchen appliances all being the same brand and
>> finish.
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> K5RHD
>>>
>>> /randy
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 14:29:17 -0700
>> From: Dave Cole <dave at nk7z.net>
>> To: rfi at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>> Message-ID: <70486942-3323-6e3f-57a3-820a9d5acb7b at nk7z.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Great suggestion Chuck, non confrontational, and more than likely
>> absolutely correct.
>>
>> 73, and thanks,
>> Dave (NK7Z)
>> https://www.nk7z.net
>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>> ARRL Technical Specialist
>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>>
>> On 5/6/20 12:54 PM, Chuck Gooden wrote:
>>>
>>> You need to get past the support help line.? Maybe write some well
>>> crafted letters to the USA Samsung Corporate office or other engineering
>>> office asking for assistance with a safety issue with the stove.
>>>
>>> If you can reach the right person, they will be interested in resolving
>>> the issue.
>>>
>>> Chuck K9LC
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/6/2020 12:53 PM, Bill Mader wrote:
>>>> Ed makes a good point Randy.? This is much more than an annoyance!
>>>> Let us
>>>> know how the ferrites work out for you.? If you can't get any
>>>> satisfaction,
>>>> in this case I would consider a report to the CPSC:
>>>> https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately, we have not experienced a similar issue with our new GE
>>>> stove
>>>> (JGB635DEK3WW).? So far I haven't noticed any RFI from it.? With as much
>>>> noise as I experience here, that may never happen!
>>>>
>>>> 73, Bill Mader, K8TE
>>>> ARRL New Mexico Section Manager
>>>> *ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio**?*
>>>> Duke City Hamfest BoD Vice-Chairman www.dukecityhamfest.org 18-20 Sep
>>>> 2020
>>>> Secretary and Past President, Albuquerque DX Association
>>>> W6H NM Coordinator, Route 66 On-the-Air 12-20 Sep 2020
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of RFI Digest, Vol 208, Issue 9
>> ***********************************
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