[RFI] Samsung oven RFI update

Kim Elmore cw_de_n5op at sbcglobal.net
Thu May 14 17:58:45 EDT 2020 

This actually good news! Keep up the reports!

Kim N5OP 

"People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least as long as the music lasts." -- Paul Hindemith

> On May 14, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Dave Cole <dave at nk7z.net> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for sharing this info...
> 
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> 
>> On 5/14/20 10:51 AM, Randy Diddel wrote:
>> Just an update. I reached out to file a support ticket with Samsung and they dispatched a repair tech to our home to see the issue first hand. I was able to easily reproduce the issue for him. He has been in the business for over 10 years and never has seen anything like this.
>> We pulled the stove out and we dragged an extension cord to another circuit to see if it made any difference. SPOILER: it didn’t-if anything it got worse with a longer power cord since we lengthened the antenna of the stove….but I humored him. He also checked to make sure the outlet was properly grounded (it was).
>> The tech has ordered a new main board under warranty and will be back next week to install it. I have little faith that this is the issue but I am willing to work through their troubleshooting process. I work in IT and understand the progression so I am patient.
>> I will share more as we work through this issue.
>> 73
>> K5RHD
>> /randy
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 15:32:36 -0500
>>> From: "Lloyd - N9LB" <lloydberg at tds.net>
>>> To: "'Hare, Ed  W1RFI'" <w1rfi at arrl.org>,    <rfi at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>>> Message-ID: <000d01d623e5$7b020060$71060120$@tds.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>>> 
>>> Would alerting Underwriters Laboratories "UL" have any value?
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+lloydberg=tds.net at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Hare, Ed W1RFI
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 12:08 PM
>>> To: Dave Cole <dave at nk7z.net>; rfi at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>>> 
>>> I do know that Paul Cianciolo has worked with a few hams on this issue. I am
>>> not sure if he made any headway on it with Samsung, but I will see him later
>>> this week and I can ask. He reads most of the posts here, but doesn't have
>>> time to respond to all of them.
>>> 
>>> I am not a lawyer either, but from an FCC perspective, hams are responsible
>>> only for interferece caused by spurious emissions and out-of-band emissions
>>> from their transmitters.  That's not to say that a neighbor would not
>>> initiate a lawsuit.   On the ARRL web page can be found information on
>>> federal pre-emption of state and local RFI issues, which could incude civil
>>> suit, but the nuances of law are such that a ham involved in that kind of
>>> dispute is going to need an attorney.
>>> 
>>> Under US law, there are no federal requirements for immunity, so the
>>> manufacturer is off the fedreal hook from an FCC perspective.  There may be
>>> other federal requirements for appliance safety, though.  Either way, they,
>>> too, would be on the hook for possible civil action should a fire result
>>> from the use of their product under any circumstances although federal
>>> pre-emption could apply there too. Again, more work for the attornies.
>>> 
>>> I do know that when Eaton was made aware that some of their AFCI breakers
>>> were tripping due to RF, they were very interested and put two engineeers on
>>> a plane from the west coast to witness ARRL's testing.  We accomodated them,
>>> of course. So manufacturers can be very interested in anything related to
>>> the safe use of their products.
>>> 
>>> Ed Hare, not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org at contesting.com> on behalf of Dave Cole
>>> <dave at nk7z.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:03 PM
>>> To: rfi at contesting.com <rfi at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>>> 
>>> You might compose a short note to them, letting them know of the safety
>>> issue, and your fear of a fire as a result of their failure to sufficiently
>>> deal with the RFI issues they clearly have.
>>> 
>>> At a minimum, take copious notes, with everyone's name and times/dates, and
>>> what was discussed.
>>> 
>>> The problem is, if I understand the rules correctly, YOU as the owner are
>>> responsible, and must accept all interference caused to your device.
>>> 
>>> Maybe Ed H could chime in here, and help clarify that a bit. I am not a
>>> lawyer, and not exposed to this as much as Ed is...
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 73, and thanks,
>>> Dave (NK7Z)
>>> https://www.nk7z.net
>>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>>> ARRL Technical Specialist
>>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>>> 
>>> On 5/6/20 8:37 AM, EDWARDS, EDDIE J via RFI wrote:
>>>> I suggest you don't tell them about how you lock it as a work around
>>> solution.  Because there may be some other RF  out there that could trigger
>>> it too!  Ask them to fix the "susceptibility to RF signals" so that this
>>> never happens unexpectedly like when you're not home.
>>>> 
>>>> This is a fire safety issue the manufacturer must fix or else replace with
>>> a new unit that is not "susceptible" to wireless signals as RF signals are
>>> everywhere and that's getting worse every day.
>>>> 
>>>> 73, de ed -K0iL
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+eedwards=oppd.com at contesting.com> On Behalf Of
>>>> Randy Diddel
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 9:32 AM
>>>> To: rfi at contesting.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>>>> 
>>>> I reached out to Samsung and logged a trouble ticket with them. The
>>> Chatbot/person on the other end had no idea what Amateur/Ham Radio was nor
>>> what RFI was either.  After explaining it to him he repeated his summary of
>>> what he thought my issue was, "So your oven is getting too hot?"
>>>> 
>>>> A local repair company is going to come out and take a look. I at least
>>> have a ticket number for the incident logged with Samsung but zero
>>> confidence that they understand what the issue is or that they will be
>>> willing to do anything about it.
>>>> 
>>>> The oven is new and under warranty but, well beyond the return date from
>>> Lowe's.
>>>> 
>>>> I continue to lock the oven from the panel and it does unlock
>>> occasionally. New behavior is that once locked, after I am done with
>>> operating on 40M, the panel is completely non-responsive and I have to pull
>>> the oven out and unplug the power to it and then plug it back in.
>>>> 
>>>> I am going to order up some ferrite and try what others have done as well
>>> and just live with it. The XYL is not interested in trying another brand-she
>>> likes the continuity of the kitchen appliances all being the same brand and
>>> finish.
>>>> 
>>>> 73
>>>> 
>>>> K5RHD
>>>> 
>>>> /randy
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 14:29:17 -0700
>>> From: Dave Cole <dave at nk7z.net>
>>> To: rfi at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
>>> Message-ID: <70486942-3323-6e3f-57a3-820a9d5acb7b at nk7z.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>> 
>>> Great suggestion Chuck, non confrontational, and more than likely
>>> absolutely correct.
>>> 
>>> 73, and thanks,
>>> Dave (NK7Z)
>>> https://www.nk7z.net
>>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>>> ARRL Technical Specialist
>>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>>> 
>>> On 5/6/20 12:54 PM, Chuck Gooden wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> You need to get past the support help line.? Maybe write some well
>>>> crafted letters to the USA Samsung Corporate office or other engineering
>>>> office asking for assistance with a safety issue with the stove.
>>>> 
>>>> If you can reach the right person, they will be interested in resolving
>>>> the issue.
>>>> 
>>>> Chuck K9LC
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/6/2020 12:53 PM, Bill Mader wrote:
>>>>> Ed makes a good point Randy.? This is much more than an annoyance!
>>>>> Let us
>>>>> know how the ferrites work out for you.? If you can't get any
>>>>> satisfaction,
>>>>> in this case I would consider a report to the CPSC:
>>>>> https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fortunately, we have not experienced a similar issue with our new GE
>>>>> stove
>>>>> (JGB635DEK3WW).? So far I haven't noticed any RFI from it.? With as much
>>>>> noise as I experience here, that may never happen!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73, Bill Mader, K8TE
>>>>> ARRL New Mexico Section Manager
>>>>> *ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio**?*
>>>>> Duke City Hamfest BoD Vice-Chairman www.dukecityhamfest.org 18-20 Sep
>>>>> 2020
>>>>> Secretary and Past President, Albuquerque DX Association
>>>>> W6H NM Coordinator, Route 66 On-the-Air 12-20 Sep 2020
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RFI mailing list
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>>> 
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>>> Subject: Digest Footer
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>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> End of RFI Digest, Vol 208, Issue 9
>>> ***********************************
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