[RFI] pleasant surprise today from Solar Edge

Hare, Ed W1RFI w1rfi at arrl.org
Thu Sep 24 10:50:28 EDT 2020


We have come a long way, but still have a ways to go. Fortunately, we are dealing with a company that is holding space for all of this and willing to work towards better and better solutions.

The initial installations were pretty bad.  They simply ran a single wire between anything that was series strung, which formed a giant loop.  The FCC rules on emission control ONLY conducted emissions ON THE AC MAINS, so any noise present on that loop did not have a specific limit.  So, the early systems complied with the letter of the law.

Over time, Solar Edge has taken a number of steps, each of which resulted in quieter systems and effective correction to more systems.  This included replacing the loop with twisted pair, not in a loop configuration, the addition of common-mode chokes, improvements to the common-mode choking, redesigned optimizers, redesigned inverters and ongoing work that Solar Edge is undertaking, working with W1VLF, trying new improvements. Honestly, this is above and beyond what most companies do and I, for one, am appreciative.  This whole thing has gotten the attention of the industry in general, and W1VLF has been contacted by Generac, another solar manufacturer, looking to work with ARRL to help them design a system that will be a gold standard for low-noise operation.  Patience is paying off, albeit in steps and timelines smaller than any of us really like.,

There is also the question of what harmful interference actually is, and cases where there is S9 noise only when a beam antenna is pointed at a house is typically seen differently by regulators, industry and amateur operators.  I have said several times here, we are all better off not having a line in the sand because if FCC ever were forced to draw that line, I can say with certainty that we are not going to like it.  FCC has rarely been required to even assess an individual circumstance as harmful interference, and when it has, that assessment has been all over the map.  I do know they will consider the level of interference, the frequency occupancy, a comparison of that level to median values of man-made noise (typically S6+ on lower bands, btw...), whether the amateur can make use of frequency agility, how often it occurs, time of day and possibly even the phase of the moons orbiting Saturn.

New solutions coming out of Solar Edge have been slow, but steady, so at this point, I an awaiting the next round to result from Solar Edge working with W1VLF.  I think that this is the stage at which I or VLF may want to do a site visit to a few locations, to see just what has been done, what can be done and to possibly try new improvements.

And thanks for pointing out the value of our work.  This is just the tip of the iceberg, as ARRL staff work with manufacturers like this, with industry groups, with the FCC, with entities like the IEEE, as industry standards and practices are developed that could impact amateur radio.  As was done in this case, we don't always have a grand sweeping victory (although that is possible, too), but manage to ensure that information about amateur radio is available as standards are developed, ARRL staff and other amateurs participate in working groups and, most important, as decisions are made by industry, ARRL has a seat at the table.  We don't hold seats in the back of the room, but at the head of the table. I am the IEEE EMC Society Vice President for Standards in a volunteer capacity, and we have other amateur volunteers serving as liaisons between the EMC Society, ARRL and other industry groups.  For me, that and the things ARRL does to bring amateur radio into classrooms, into various EmComm organizations and similar work overshadows whether I think that ARRL made the right decision wrt QSL bureau costs of the rules for the Whoop and Holler contest.  Okay, soapbox off.   But if any of this does encourage people to join, include a note that explains your reasons for joining, and send a copy of that to your ARRL Division Director.  Those notes do get read and passed around, and Directors make policy decisions based on what members say is important.  

Ed Hare, W1RFI
ARRL Lab  Manager



-----Original Message-----
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org at contesting.com> On Behalf Of r55stan at gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 1:16 AM
To: 'Tony' <73guddx at gmail.com>; 'Rfi List' <rfi at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] pleasant surprise today from Solar Edge

If SolarEdge applies their fix and the noise is still too high, it is possible they missed one panel.  That happened with one  of my neighbors about two years ago.  They finally got it right on the fourth service call.  Now I don't have any RFI from that house.  So, get them to come back, pull off every panel and check that every optimizer has added ferrites on both the inputs and outputs and the wires are twisted.

Randy KQ6RS

-----Original Message-----
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+r55stan=gmail.com at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Tony
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 9:53 PM
To: Rfi List <rfi at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] pleasant surprise today from Solar Edge

James:

Solar Edge used the same suppression techniques on my neighbors installation and it only reduced the noise from S-9 +15 db to S-9 which is still very high.

I suspect that the suppression would be more effective on installations that emit lower-levels of RFI so it would be interesting to know how strong the noise was prior to the suppression being installed and what the results were afterward.

The distance from your antenna to the solar panels is another factor so it would be helpful to know that as well.

Congratulations.

Tony -K2MO



On 9/23/2020 9:29 PM, WW3S wrote:
> My neighbor across the street had a 21 panel Solar Edge array 
> installed in May 2019, 6.5 kw I believe. I had the 18kc noise spikes, 
> and the 200kc spaced optimizer noise. After working with Paul at the 
> ARRL, who contacted the Solar Edge technical team on my behalf, Solar 
> Edge committed to fixing the problem. They were supposed to come out 
> in the spring, but of course current events prevented that. A visit 
> was scheduled for early September, but the local crew needed to 
> cancel. So I was suprised to see their van at the neighbors bright and 
> early this morning. While the panels were disconnected, I took so more 
> sdr sample screenshots, of course no noise.  The engineer from Solar 
> Edge appeared, and we had a brief chat about the course of action they 
> were going to take. replace all 21 optimizers, twist all the DC 
> wiring, and install ferrites on all the leads in to the optimizers. I 
> had to leave for an appt this afternoon, and they were gone when I got 
> back, but......it appears to be successful !!! The 200kc optimizer 
> noise certainly is gone, no notice of it at all on the sdr, and the 
> other noise seems gone as well. I only had a short time to check, but 
> it certainly seems to have knocked most, if not all, of the noise 
> down.....(insert emoji for jumping on soapbox) No matter how you feel 
> about the ARRL, they are really the only game in town as far as 
> supporting the amateur radio community with regards to RFI and 
> spectrum defense. If you can spare a few bucks, send it to them. If 
> you are not a member, think about joining.
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi


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