[RFI] RFI Digest, Vol 220, Issue 24

Tue May 25 19:04:01 EDT 2021

As I mentioned in an earlier post, as of 2017 SolarEdge did not recommend
using their product near ham radio stations.  That info came to me from
Mike Gruber, W1MG, EMC Engineer at ARRL HQ, and he got it from SolarEdge
themselves. He also mentioned that the ARRL had received RFI complaints
regarding SolarEdge devices.  So I'd pony up the extra cost for the Enphase
inverters, which are a known good option... but of course I don't know what
current SolarEdge products are like, or what your specific circumstances
are.

73,
 Frank N6OI

Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 15:54:04 -0700
> From: "Robert T. Devine" <rtdevine at comcast.net>
> To: <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] SOLAR INSTALLATION PROS/CONS
> Message-ID: <046301d750ef$b24f0d50$16ed27f0$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> I have talked with the company (Sun Run Installation). He is going to check
> Solar Edge micro inverters to see if problems.  I believe they use Solar
> Edge but they have and can put Enphase micro inverters instead at a
> slightly
> higher cost.
>
> Thoughts???
>
> Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
> Manager, ARRL 6th District Incoming QSL Bureau
>
> "Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
> 'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
> meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+rtdevine=comcast.net at contesting.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Robert T. Devine
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 12:33 PM
> To: rfi at contesting.com
> Subject: [RFI] SOLAR INSTALLATION PROS/CONS
>
> Looking for information from those that have experienced Solar
> Installations
>
>
>
> Pro's and con's appreciated
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
>
> Manager, ARRL 6th District Incoming QSL Bureau
>
>
>
> "Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
>
> 'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
>
> meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 16:04:38 -0700
> From: "Robert T. Devine" <rtdevine at comcast.net>
> To: <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] SOLAR INSTALLATION PROS/CONS
> Message-ID: <046801d750f1$2cba0d50$862e27f0$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> I may ask to visit a site that's up and running and I presume you can stand
> right outside
> the house by the box etc to see?
>
> If I was to bring a SW radio to a working site what would I be looking for
> throughout the Ham bands? Consistent interference or peaks and valleys up
> and
> down the bands?
>
>
> Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
> Manager, ARRL 6th District Incoming QSL Bureau
>
> "Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
> 'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
> meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+rtdevine=comcast.net at contesting.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Robert T. Devine
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 3:54 PM
> To: rfi at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] SOLAR INSTALLATION PROS/CONS
>
> I have talked with the company (Sun Run Installation). He is going to check
> Solar Edge micro inverters to see if problems.  I believe they use Solar
> Edge but they have and can put Enphase micro inverters instead at a
> slightly
> higher cost.
>
> Thoughts???
>
> Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
> Manager, ARRL 6th District Incoming QSL Bureau
>
> "Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
> 'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
> meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+rtdevine=comcast.net at contesting.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Robert T. Devine
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 12:33 PM
> To: rfi at contesting.com
> Subject: [RFI] SOLAR INSTALLATION PROS/CONS
>
> Looking for information from those that have experienced Solar
> Installations
>
>
>
> Pro's and con's appreciated
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
>
> Manager, ARRL 6th District Incoming QSL Bureau
>
>
>
> "Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
>
> 'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
>
> meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 20:38:43 -0700
> From: Mark Schoonover <mark at ka6wke.net>
> To: "Robert T. Devine" <rtdevine at comcast.net>
> Cc: RFI <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] SOLAR INSTALLATION PROS/CONS
> Message-ID:
>         <CAC++DEb_jpsXYdzh5e=
> cgkZcWCSniWWiA+C3r96WkNUb4wsvgA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> When I went to a site I brought a Yachtboy portable. I started with WWV on
> 10 and 15 MHz. Checked 160-10M bands. Finally I swept from 550KHz-30MHz.
> This was a 20 KW ground mounted system using Enphase micro inverters. I was
> able to walk around with the radio just 6" away from the system. When it
> was finally installed on my roof I had zero RFI.
>
> HTH
>
> On Mon, May 24, 2021, 16:04 Robert T. Devine <rtdevine at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I may ask to visit a site that's up and running and I presume you can
> stand
> > right outside
> > the house by the box etc to see?
> >
> > If I was to bring a SW radio to a working site what would I be looking
> for
> > throughout the Ham bands? Consistent interference or peaks and valleys up
> > and
> > down the bands?
> >
> >
> > Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
> > Manager, ARRL 6th District Incoming QSL Bureau
> >
> > "Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
> > 'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
> > meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+rtdevine=comcast.net at contesting.com] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Robert T. Devine
> > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 3:54 PM
> > To: rfi at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [RFI] SOLAR INSTALLATION PROS/CONS
> >
> > I have talked with the company (Sun Run Installation). He is going to
> check
> > Solar Edge micro inverters to see if problems.  I believe they use Solar
> > Edge but they have and can put Enphase micro inverters instead at a
> > slightly
> > higher cost.
> >
> > Thoughts???
> >
> > Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
> > Manager, ARRL 6th District Incoming QSL Bureau
> >
> > "Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
> > 'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
> > meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+rtdevine=comcast.net at contesting.com] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Robert T. Devine
> > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 12:33 PM
> > To: rfi at contesting.com
> > Subject: [RFI] SOLAR INSTALLATION PROS/CONS
> >
> > Looking for information from those that have experienced Solar
> > Installations
> >
> >
> >
> > Pro's and con's appreciated
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
> >
> > Manager, ARRL 6th District Incoming QSL Bureau
> >
> >
> >
> > "Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
> >
> > 'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
> >
> > meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 10:45:28 +0000
> From: "Hare, Ed, W1RFI" <w1rfi at arrl.org>
> To: K9MA <k9ma at sdellington.us>, Charles Plunk <af4o at twc.com>
> Cc: rfi <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Crepe Myrtle growing into power pole RFI Why?
> Message-ID:
>         <
> BLAPR16MB3842AB9844E1144F0FBF829898259 at BLAPR16MB3842.namprd16.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> This does explain some of the power-line noise that seems to peak on VHF,
> rather than be stronger the lower in frequency one tunes. Some of those
> cross arms that may hold up some of the wooden structure can be resonant on
> VHF or upper HF.
>
> Ed, W1RFI
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org at contesting.com> on behalf of K9MA <
> k9ma at sdellington.us>
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 3:24 PM
> To: Charles Plunk <af4o at twc.com>
> Cc: rfi <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Crepe Myrtle growing into power pole RFI Why?
>
> Any two conductors anywhere near HV line can cause noise if they are not
> either well insulated from each other or securely bonded together. The
> field from the HV wires induces voltage in the conductor, which can cause
> an arc. In my experience, this is by far the most common cause of power
> line noise.
>
> 73,
> Scott K9MA
>
> ----------
>
> Scott Ellington
>
>  --- via iPad
>
> > On May 24, 2021, at 2:13 PM, Charles Plunk <af4o at twc.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?If you have been following my latest saga, I have a 3 phase pole at the
> corner of my back yard and another (both wood) in the front yard topped
> with 3x 7.2kv lines. Weeks ago I located an arc on the back pole through
> the usually methods and finally seeing it with binoculars in the dark.
> Power co fixed, it was the ground wire stapled to the pole to close to a
> bolt which mounts the fused disconnect. They simply moved the wire away and
> re-stapled. It is gone.
> >
> > I had a 2nd arc on that pole but on the opposite side. It has all but
> disappeared on its own with higher humidity. I suspect it will return in
> the fall but ultrasonic tended to site on another part of the same ground
> wire.
> >
> > Fast forward to 2 days ago, I begin to hear another strong arc. But this
> one is on the front yard pole. There is a crepe myrtle (~20-25' high) that
> has begun to grow around the pole but nowhere near the top 3 phase. Using
> my ultrasonic I heard it best lower on the pole where the crepe myrtle is
> around and probably touching the ground wire.
> >
> > My question is, why is a wire at ground potential arcing to hardware
> insulated from the 7.2kv or to a crepe myrtle on either pole? Those ground
> wires go all the way to ground stapled to the pole uninsulated where anyone
> can touch them. I am glad to locate these rfi sources but trying to wrap my
> head around why?
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > W4NBO
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 06:47:37 -0500
> From: Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo at gmail.com>
> To: rfi <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] SOLAR INSTALLATION PROS/CONS
> Message-ID:
>         <CALWD7Z7-OFNZYfzD6whL-4PoBtgpWCGiAT96OfO8=-
> T4erenyQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> "Some of you guys must live in great places with lots of contractors
> looking for work. We tried to add an RFI clause to our furnace/AC
> install. No one would even give us a bid until we removed the request
> for the RFI clause...."
>
> You've lost sight of the way people in business to make money by
> minimizing expenses (time being one of them), and have utterly no
> knowledge of shortwave radio see this.   To executives in this
> industry and contractors, shortwave radio people appear to be just a
> handful of goofy old kooks.  "Why aren't you on the internet?" they
> think.  They're not going to blow a lot of time and money on some nut
> job when they can do easy no hassle installs everywhere else.  If 70%
> of prospects had your concerns they'd adapt but there's no incentive
> in reality, because hams are simply not that numerous.  If I were in
> the business and I had to make a business decision about how to direct
> my assets for the most profit I'd blow you off too.   If I were a
> prospect, I'd try explaining to the contractor what ham radio is and
> why we enjoy it, and that it is important to us, and explain what RFI
> is, and that it has to be eliminated, where it comes from and how to
> get rid of it.  If the contractor glazes over or seems dismissive I'd
> move on.  Clauses in contracts to legally force our will are just a
> huge turnoff to a person in business.   If I couldn't get anyone who
> takes radio seriously I'd blow the whole thing off as being too much
> of a hassle with not enough ROI.
>
> 73
> Rob
> K5UJ
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 07:51:44 -0400
> From: Mike Martin <mike at rfiservices.com>
> To: Charles Plunk <af4o at twc.com>
> Cc: Mark Schoonover via RFI <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Crepe Myrtle growing into power pole RFI Why?
> Message-ID: <e87c0881-2255-4275-aa11-b7678bd6021a at rfiservices.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Chuck, the ground wire is not energized the hardware that it comes in
> contact with is energized. All the hardware on the pole is energized by the
> induced voltage from the primary conductor at the top. The closer to the
> primary conductor the hardware is, the higher the level of induced voltage.
> When the ground conductor is close enough to the energized hardware around
> it the gap between the two breakdown from stress and the spark occurs. The
> smaller the Gap the more times per half cycle the discharge occurs, the
> larger the Gap the fewer times it can discharge per half cycle. That's one
> of the components that creates the specific signature for a noise source.
>
> As for the crepe myrtle, you can eliminate that as a cause of your RFI
> even if it were touching the primary. You'll get ultrasound and audible
> noise but you will not get rf. Contrary to what many people say about
> finding their sources as trees touching the line, I have never had a tree
> arching to the wire creating RF noise. If the crepe myrtle gets within a
> couple of feet of the primary turn it into your utility and they'll take
> care of it.
>
> ?Be safe,
> Mike
> www.RFIServices.com
>
> On May 24, 2021, 3:24 PM, at 3:24 PM, Charles Plunk <af4o at twc.com> wrote:
> >To answer my own question I am guessing that dirt around the fused
> >disconnects insulator allowing enough flow to arc to ground. And the
> >crepe myrtle with its moist branch this time of year and deep roots
> >provided a better ground than the util ground thus the arc.
> >
> >
> >On 5/24/21 2:13 PM, Charles Plunk wrote:
> >> If you have been following my latest saga, I have a 3 phase pole at
> >> the corner of my back yard and another (both wood) in the front yard
> >> topped with 3x 7.2kv lines. Weeks ago I located an arc on the back
> >> pole through the usually methods and finally seeing it with
> >binoculars
> >> in the dark. Power co fixed, it was the ground wire stapled to the
> >> pole to close to a bolt which mounts the fused disconnect. They
> >simply
> >> moved the wire away and re-stapled. It is gone.
> >>
> >> I had a 2nd arc on that pole but on the opposite side. It has all but
> >
> >> disappeared on its own with higher humidity. I suspect it will return
> >
> >> in the fall but ultrasonic tended to site on another part of the same
> >
> >> ground wire.
> >>
> >> Fast forward to 2 days ago, I begin to hear another strong arc. But
> >> this one is on the front yard pole. There is a crepe myrtle (~20-25'
> >> high) that has begun to grow around the pole but nowhere near the top
> >
> >> 3 phase. Using my ultrasonic I heard it best lower on the pole where
> >> the crepe myrtle is around and probably touching the ground wire.
> >>
> >> My question is, why is a wire at ground potential arcing to hardware
> >> insulated from the 7.2kv or to a crepe myrtle on either pole? Those
> >> ground wires go all the way to ground stapled to the pole uninsulated
> >
> >> where anyone can touch them. I am glad to locate these rfi sources
> >but
> >> trying to wrap my head around why?
> >>
> >> 73
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >> W4NBO
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> RFI mailing list
> >> RFI at contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
> >_______________________________________________
> >RFI mailing list
> >RFI at contesting.com
> >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of RFI Digest, Vol 220, Issue 24
> ************************************
>