[RFI] NIMBY

James Gordon Beattie Jr w2ttt at att.net
Wed Dec 14 22:17:20 EST 2022 

Bob,
I can understand the perspective of the firefighters.  No point in dying for material goods.

Some people pay for their systems and keep the credits.  A former colleague in Connecticut did that.

I'm setting my panels up on the ground now that I'm no living like a serf on a suburban lot in a high-tax area.  The batteries will be in a shaded and ventilated shed and may end up in an air conditioned shed dedicated to equipment in the future.  No point in losing your home or ham shack to battery issues.


73,
J. Gordon "Gordie" Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT at ATT.NET
Gordon.BeattieJr at VIAVISolutions.com


Get On The Air!

________________________________
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w2ttt=att.net at contesting.com> on behalf of Bob Kozlarek WA2SQQ <wa2sqq at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2022 12:38:18 PM
To: rfi at contesting.com <rfi at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] NIMBY

Gordon
I posed the same question. The look I received was a Kodak moment. He made
it clear that the sole objective was to put out the fire with minimal risk
to the firefighter. I don’t think that reusing the panel is part of the
equation. In NJ they are marketing solar installations to be virtually free
to the customer. They get them to sign over the energy credits to the
installing company. Most people aren’t aware of what energy credits are.
The battery systems, like Tesla’s, are also a growing concern to fire
departments since you now have a huge bank of batteries which can be a
catastrophic event if the structure catches fire.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 12:00 PM <rfi-request at contesting.com> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors (Bob Kozlarek WA2SQQ)
>    2. Re:  NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors
>       (James Gordon Beattie Jr)
>    3. Re:  NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors (Michael Carter)
>    4. Re:  NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors (Mike NA6MB)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 17:10:27 -0500
> From: Bob Kozlarek WA2SQQ <wa2sqq at gmail.com>
> To: rfi at contesting.com
> Subject: [RFI] NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors
> Message-ID:
>         <CAK47ybkOeHpRFMSUHqf5CDGaL=
> ZR-NwR2bu6dvJGBFpDG1n4NQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I?ve had a few people in my neighborhood consider installing solar panels.
> I spoke to our fire inspector about the protocol the department has for
> fighting a fire involving solar panels on the roof. Short version of the
> long story is they will not go up on a roof or engage with the fire until
> the panels are disabled. They are looking into a black tar like spray that
> could be applied to the panels to disable them. He explained that the light
> on an evening from a full moon can produce enough voltage to be very
> hazardous to a fire fighter. New Jersey solar panel installers also
> deceptively don?t inform the customer that they are signing away their
> energy credits. In three cases, when my neighbors found out about this,
> their response was thanks but no thanks I?m not interested. --
>
>
>
> *Best 73 de WA2SQQElmwood Park, NJ"The only dumb questions are those we
> don't ask"*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 23:09:04 +0000
> From: James Gordon Beattie Jr <w2ttt at att.net>
> To: Bob Kozlarek WA2SQQ <wa2sqq at gmail.com>, "rfi at contesting.com"
>         <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI]  NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors
> Message-ID:
>         <
> MW4P223MB06330C2FB5E26471AD614446FEE39 at MW4P223MB0633.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> Bob,
> So does the coating ruin the panels?
> If you pay for your system up front, you should be able to keep the
> credits.
> If we do solar, it will be on racks and not the house and will not be
> grid-tied.  People here use battery arrays.
>
>
>
> 73,
> J. Gordon "Gordie" Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
> 201.314.6964
> W2TTT at ATT.NET
> Gordon.BeattieJr at VIAVISolutions.com
>
>
> Get On The Air!
>
> ________________________________
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w2ttt=att.net at contesting.com> on behalf of Bob
> Kozlarek WA2SQQ <wa2sqq at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 5:10:27 PM
> To: rfi at contesting.com <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: [RFI] NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors
>
> I?ve had a few people in my neighborhood consider installing solar panels.
> I spoke to our fire inspector about the protocol the department has for
> fighting a fire involving solar panels on the roof. Short version of the
> long story is they will not go up on a roof or engage with the fire until
> the panels are disabled. They are looking into a black tar like spray that
> could be applied to the panels to disable them. He explained that the light
> on an evening from a full moon can produce enough voltage to be very
> hazardous to a fire fighter. New Jersey solar panel installers also
> deceptively don?t inform the customer that they are signing away their
> energy credits. In three cases, when my neighbors found out about this,
> their response was thanks but no thanks I?m not interested. --
>
>
>
> *Best 73 de WA2SQQElmwood Park, NJ"The only dumb questions are those we
> don't ask"*
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 02:25:46 +0000
> From: Michael Carter <Mike.Carter at unh.edu>
> To: "rfi at contesting.com" <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI]  NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors
> Message-ID:
>         <
> BL3P223MB0385D1D48C15B7CA30021D3DE4E09 at BL3P223MB0385.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> NFPA 70, the National Electrical Safety Code, describes
> requirements for rapid shutdown of photovoltaic arrays
> in Article 690.12.  Most local Authorities Having Jurisdiction
> (local building code boards) adopt NFPA 70 requirements,
> but not all do.  First responders (primarily firefighters) are
> aware of the rapid shutdown requirement for photovoltaic
> systems mounted on buildings - spraying an occluding
> substance over a PV array should not be necessary.  If
> a PV system is installed in violation of local codes that
> incorporate NFPA 70 by reference, that is another matter
> entirely.  Article 690.12 doesn't prevent potentially
> hazardous voltages from being present on building-mounted
> PV systems even if the rapid shutdown function has been
> activated (e.g. DC disconnect of the array modules by a
> manual switch), but it does limit the extent of the hazard.
>
> Mike, K8CN
> (father of paramedic/firefighter, and licensed Professional Engineer)
> ________________________________
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+mike.carter=unh.edu at contesting.com> on behalf of
> Bob Kozlarek WA2SQQ <wa2sqq at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 5:10 PM
> To: rfi at contesting.com <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: [RFI] NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University System. Do
> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
> know the content is safe.
>
>
> I?ve had a few people in my neighborhood consider installing solar panels.
> I spoke to our fire inspector about the protocol the department has for
> fighting a fire involving solar panels on the roof. Short version of the
> long story is they will not go up on a roof or engage with the fire until
> the panels are disabled. They are looking into a black tar like spray that
> could be applied to the panels to disable them. He explained that the light
> on an evening from a full moon can produce enough voltage to be very
> hazardous to a fire fighter. New Jersey solar panel installers also
> deceptively don?t inform the customer that they are signing away their
> energy credits. In three cases, when my neighbors found out about this,
> their response was thanks but no thanks I?m not interested. --
>
>
>
> *Best 73 de WA2SQQElmwood Park, NJ"The only dumb questions are those we
> don't ask"*
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Frfi&data=05%7C01%7Cmike.carter%40unh.edu%7C25d40d9e7c9e44db5b0c08dadd56e7dc%7Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666%7C0%7C0%7C638065662571339097%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yvDrAlPQBvZcHpiyDyQybHzkOy9c4ap3PRy6NYpKzJg%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:33:10 -0800
> From: Mike NA6MB <na6mb.mike at gmail.com>
> To: Michael Carter <Mike.Carter at unh.edu>,       "rfi at contesting.com"
>         <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI]  NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors
> Message-ID: <325f3d6e-e6f4-e4fe-7274-0246b0560f1e at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> On my system, the shut off is on the DC input to the bulk converter at
> the converter.
> The label on the metal conduit says 600VDC.
> The DC wires on the roof are? still live.
> That would protect someone working on the AC panel or solar converter,
> but not up on the roof.
>
> NA6MB
>
>
>
> On 12/13/2022 6:25 PM, Michael Carter wrote:
> > NFPA 70, the National Electrical Safety Code, describes
> > requirements for rapid shutdown of photovoltaic arrays
> > in Article 690.12.  Most local Authorities Having Jurisdiction
> > (local building code boards) adopt NFPA 70 requirements,
> > but not all do.  First responders (primarily firefighters) are
> > aware of the rapid shutdown requirement for photovoltaic
> > systems mounted on buildings - spraying an occluding
> > substance over a PV array should not be necessary.  If
> > a PV system is installed in violation of local codes that
> > incorporate NFPA 70 by reference, that is another matter
> > entirely.  Article 690.12 doesn't prevent potentially
> > hazardous voltages from being present on building-mounted
> > PV systems even if the rapid shutdown function has been
> > activated (e.g. DC disconnect of the array modules by a
> > manual switch), but it does limit the extent of the hazard.
> >
> > Mike, K8CN
> > (father of paramedic/firefighter, and licensed Professional Engineer)
> > ________________________________
> > From: RFI <rfi-bounces+mike.carter=unh.edu at contesting.com> on behalf of
> Bob Kozlarek WA2SQQ <wa2sqq at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 5:10 PM
> > To: rfi at contesting.com <rfi at contesting.com>
> > Subject: [RFI] NIMBY - Here?s how I dissuade my neighbors
> >
> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University System. Do
> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
> know the content is safe.
> >
> >
> > I?ve had a few people in my neighborhood consider installing solar
> panels.
> > I spoke to our fire inspector about the protocol the department has for
> > fighting a fire involving solar panels on the roof. Short version of the
> > long story is they will not go up on a roof or engage with the fire until
> > the panels are disabled. They are looking into a black tar like spray
> that
> > could be applied to the panels to disable them. He explained that the
> light
> > on an evening from a full moon can produce enough voltage to be very
> > hazardous to a fire fighter. New Jersey solar panel installers also
> > deceptively don?t inform the customer that they are signing away their
> > energy credits. In three cases, when my neighbors found out about this,
> > their response was thanks but no thanks I?m not interested. --
> >
> >
> >
> > *Best 73 de WA2SQQElmwood Park, NJ"The only dumb questions are those we
> > don't ask"*
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI at contesting.com
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.contesting.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Frfi&data=05%7C01%7Cmike.carter%40unh.edu%7C25d40d9e7c9e44db5b0c08dadd56e7dc%7Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666%7C0%7C0%7C638065662571339097%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yvDrAlPQBvZcHpiyDyQybHzkOy9c4ap3PRy6NYpKzJg%3D&reserved=0
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Mike
> NA6MB
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of RFI Digest, Vol 239, Issue 7
> ***********************************
>
--



*Best 73 de WA2SQQElmwood Park, NJ"The only dumb questions are those we
don't ask"*
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