[RTTY] FREQUENCY IN USE BY ... (JT65/JT9)

[Jeff Blaine]

I don't think anyone in the RTTY contesting community has il will for the 
PSK guys.  But on the same token, if the PSK guys want to have more 
contesting activity, and draw a bigger crowd, they need to organize and 
promote the things that make contesting fun - which includes a focus on 
Q-rate.

To my thinking, the contest organizers are the ones who will need to do 
this - not a bunch of RTTY guys coming to the PSK party and telling them how 
it's supposed to be done.  But I don't think it's going to happen.  I talk 
to a lot of guys in our club who are into PSK about getting on RTTY.  For 
the most part, they are not interested in the mode, and even less are 
interested in the contesting aspect.  But that may be just a small window 
and I admit it's not at all intended to be a proxy for the greater PSK 
community at large.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Stanley Zawrotny
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 4:12 PM
To: Jeff Blaine
Cc: pcooper ; <rtty at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] FREQUENCY IN USE BY ... (JT65/JT9)

I agree that too many of the PSK31 operators are unskilled in contesting. 
That may be because they haven't had the opportunity to learn the 
techniques. Possibly, if more contests had a PSK category, along with an 
RTTY category, they would eventually learn. If you didn't want to be slowed 
down by them, you could stay in the RTTY band and let them plod along. 
Remember, we are an older mode with years of experience. Given time, maybe 
they also would have a PSK-Contesting forum where they could gripe about too 
many characters in an exchange.

Wouldn't it better if we were to mentor our fellow Amateur Radio citizens, 
rather than calling them "those guys," as if they were members of some rival 
gang across town?

BTW, when I look in my log, I can spot many callsigns that I have worked 
with the mode of RTTY, PSK31 & JT65 on different dates. So I know that many 
of you do operate multiple modes. I work DX and even ragchew, when I am not 
contesting. Hope to see y'all in my log sometime in any mode.

Stan, K4SBZ

"Real radio bounces off the sky."

> On Jan 7, 2014, at 2:01 PM, "Jeff Blaine" <keepwalking188 at yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
>
> There are contests for other modes (PSK comes to mind).  So they do exist 
> although in limited numbers. I've participated seriously in one PSK31 
> contest and that was the last one for me.  Far too many callers could not 
> wrap their heads around the concept of a short, fast and efficient 
> exchange. And too many insisted in sending me their brag tape.
>
> Personally I think the problem for the contest enthusiast with these 
> alternative modes is that the focus on rate is lacking.  And you have to 
> do a lot of things right to get a good sustained rate (let's say that is 
> 100Q/hr as a threshold).  It seems to me that PSK31 has the technical 
> means of generating similar rates (even more so with it's higher speed 
> brothers), but it's the lack of enough contest-trained ops that result in 
> a less than optimal contesting experience.
>
> But the PSK31 and JT guys and anyone else thinking that it's going to be 
> business as usual on 14076 when the RU or the WPX is running is just not 
> facing reality.  Just in the same way that CW guys chasing dx are going to 
> have a tough time on FD weekend.
>
> Fortunately, the WARC bands by gentlemen's agreement don't ever seem to 
> have contest activity.  The fact is there is plenty of bandspace available 
> for non-contest digital modes to those who want to OPERATE.  And 
> unfortunately, the guys who are looking to complain about this or that 
> sacred frequency and contest interference seem more focused on making the 
> complaint than embracing the ready solution.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c
> www.ac0c.com
> alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Stanley Zawrotny
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 2:39 PM
> To: pcooper
> Cc: <rtty at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] FREQUENCY IN USE BY ... (JT65/JT9)
>
> Greetings to all,
>
> This forum has a very focused audience with a limited mindset, whereas the 
> digital aspect of this hobby is very broad. (How many of you subscribe to 
> other forums?) RTTY traditionally operates on 20 between 14.080 & 14.100, 
> a range of .200. But during the contests, everyone seems to think that 
> they can spread out and take over the entire digital band without regard 
> to the other digital modes. Thankfully, everyone continues to respect the 
> PSK31 folks, but the JT65 people, with their one frequency, are now the 
> enemy? Whatever happened to the DX Code of Conduct? Or is getting that 
> last few points more important than "Respecting my fellow hams and 
> conducting myself so as to earn their respect?" Let's give the other guy a 
> break and QSY like a gentleman.
>
> BTW, I operate multiple modes, including, (gasp) SSB (but not Pactor). I 
> also wonder when the contests will start including the other digital modes 
> or will it always be just SSB, CW and RTTY?
>
> And, no, you won't find me in your log this weekend because I gave up my 
> entire weekend to running a Special Event Station. Out of courtesy, We did 
> not operate RTTY so as to not cause QRM during the contest.
>
> HNY to all.
>
> Stan, K4SBZ
>
> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
>
>> On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:49 PM, " pcooper" <pcooper at guernsey.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, and a very HNY to you all!
>>
>> JT65, and JT9, are modes that you can indeed use when RTTY would be 
>> inaudible. I prefer JT65 for no apparent reason, but JT9 is certainly 
>> more efficient, both in terms of bandwidth, and power levels used.
>> I've been using both (but mostly JT65A) for some while now, and it is 
>> amazing what you can work when the bands are flat.
>>
>> When I first started, I thought it would be good to join the JT-user 
>> group on Yahoo. It seemed pertinent, and would be useful in finding out 
>> what is good practice.
>>
>> Well, that was not my experience of that particular group! They were 
>> extremely anti-RTTY, and I when I mentioned that I used both modes, I 
>> ended up with more than a few direct emails that were enough to make me 
>> decide to un-join the group, and quickly!
>> There are several users that specifically use RTTY during a contest to 
>> tell folk to clear off the JT65 frequencies. They generally won't provide 
>> a callsign, and I saw a couple of users letting others know the best ways 
>> to interfere with RTTY signals.
>> These are calls I now avoid like the plague when I am using the mode.
>>
>> OK, I know it is good practice not to interfere with others users of the 
>> band, and it is fair to say that you may often not be able to hear them, 
>> which doesn't mean they aren't there, but these few were very anti-RTTY, 
>> and made very few comments about CW invading "their space" during the 
>> likes of CQWW.
>>
>> Simply, it is NOT "their space", as digital modes are allocated a space 
>> where you can use whichever mode you choose.
>> That does not mean I will intentionally get in their way, but they are a 
>> very vociferous lot.
>>
>> If you have not yet tried either of these modes, then I can recommend 
>> them, as it is an impressive tool.
>> I've managed VK/ZL and W6/7/VE7 with just 20 watts of JT65 on 10m when 
>> RTTY would simply not work.
>> The apps by VK3AMA are extremely useful with either, and can me made to 
>> log into your logging software automatically.
>> At 5 minutes per QSO, it is not a rate mode, but still useful!
>>
>> There, that's my rant, off my chest, and done with.
>>
>> 73 de Phil GU0SUP
> _______________________________________________
> RTTY mailing list
> RTTY at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty