[RTTY] FREQUENCY IN USE BY ... (JT65/JT9)

[David G3YYD]

The RSGB run a RTTY and PSK 80m contest on a monthly basis. It runs for 2.5
hours in the evenings. To score well both modes need to be used as points
are normalised for each mode and then added together to work out the final
score. 

All serious contesters complained about PSK31 being slow, which it is. It is
slower to make QSOs with than RTTY. However note it is a PSK contest not a
PSK31 contest so now a faster speed is used PSK63 and that makes QSOs at a
similar rate to RTTY.

PSK per se is not a problem it is the speed at which it is used.

73 David G3YYD

-----Original Message-----
From: RTTY [mailto:rtty-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Blaine
Sent: 07 January 2014 22:32
To: RTTY Reflector
Subject: [RTTY] FREQUENCY IN USE BY ... (JT65/JT9)

I don't think anyone in the RTTY contesting community has il will for the
PSK guys.  But on the same token, if the PSK guys want to have more
contesting activity, and draw a bigger crowd, they need to organize and
promote the things that make contesting fun - which includes a focus on
Q-rate.

To my thinking, the contest organizers are the ones who will need to do this
- not a bunch of RTTY guys coming to the PSK party and telling them how it's
supposed to be done.  But I don't think it's going to happen.  I talk to a
lot of guys in our club who are into PSK about getting on RTTY.  For the
most part, they are not interested in the mode, and even less are interested
in the contesting aspect.  But that may be just a small window and I admit
it's not at all intended to be a proxy for the greater PSK community at
large.

73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: Stanley Zawrotny
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 4:12 PM
To: Jeff Blaine
Cc: pcooper ; <rtty at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] FREQUENCY IN USE BY ... (JT65/JT9)

I agree that too many of the PSK31 operators are unskilled in contesting. 
That may be because they haven't had the opportunity to learn the
techniques. Possibly, if more contests had a PSK category, along with an
RTTY category, they would eventually learn. If you didn't want to be slowed
down by them, you could stay in the RTTY band and let them plod along. 
Remember, we are an older mode with years of experience. Given time, maybe
they also would have a PSK-Contesting forum where they could gripe about too
many characters in an exchange.

Wouldn't it better if we were to mentor our fellow Amateur Radio citizens,
rather than calling them "those guys," as if they were members of some rival
gang across town?

BTW, when I look in my log, I can spot many callsigns that I have worked
with the mode of RTTY, PSK31 & JT65 on different dates. So I know that many
of you do operate multiple modes. I work DX and even ragchew, when I am not
contesting. Hope to see y'all in my log sometime in any mode.

Stan, K4SBZ

"Real radio bounces off the sky."

> On Jan 7, 2014, at 2:01 PM, "Jeff Blaine" <keepwalking188 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> There are contests for other modes (PSK comes to mind).  So they do 
> exist although in limited numbers. I've participated seriously in one 
> PSK31 contest and that was the last one for me.  Far too many callers 
> could not wrap their heads around the concept of a short, fast and 
> efficient exchange. And too many insisted in sending me their brag tape.
>
> Personally I think the problem for the contest enthusiast with these 
> alternative modes is that the focus on rate is lacking.  And you have 
> to do a lot of things right to get a good sustained rate (let's say 
> that is 100Q/hr as a threshold).  It seems to me that PSK31 has the 
> technical means of generating similar rates (even more so with it's 
> higher speed brothers), but it's the lack of enough contest-trained 
> ops that result in a less than optimal contesting experience.
>
> But the PSK31 and JT guys and anyone else thinking that it's going to 
> be business as usual on 14076 when the RU or the WPX is running is 
> just not facing reality.  Just in the same way that CW guys chasing dx 
> are going to have a tough time on FD weekend.
>
> Fortunately, the WARC bands by gentlemen's agreement don't ever seem 
> to have contest activity.  The fact is there is plenty of bandspace 
> available for non-contest digital modes to those who want to OPERATE.  
> And unfortunately, the guys who are looking to complain about this or 
> that sacred frequency and contest interference seem more focused on 
> making the complaint than embracing the ready solution.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c
> www.ac0c.com
> alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Stanley Zawrotny
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 2:39 PM
> To: pcooper
> Cc: <rtty at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] FREQUENCY IN USE BY ... (JT65/JT9)
>
> Greetings to all,
>
> This forum has a very focused audience with a limited mindset, whereas 
> the digital aspect of this hobby is very broad. (How many of you 
> subscribe to other forums?) RTTY traditionally operates on 20 between 
> 14.080 & 14.100, a range of .200. But during the contests, everyone 
> seems to think that they can spread out and take over the entire 
> digital band without regard to the other digital modes. Thankfully, 
> everyone continues to respect the
> PSK31 folks, but the JT65 people, with their one frequency, are now 
> the enemy? Whatever happened to the DX Code of Conduct? Or is getting 
> that last few points more important than "Respecting my fellow hams 
> and conducting myself so as to earn their respect?" Let's give the 
> other guy a break and QSY like a gentleman.
>
> BTW, I operate multiple modes, including, (gasp) SSB (but not Pactor). 
> I also wonder when the contests will start including the other digital 
> modes or will it always be just SSB, CW and RTTY?
>
> And, no, you won't find me in your log this weekend because I gave up 
> my entire weekend to running a Special Event Station. Out of courtesy, 
> We did not operate RTTY so as to not cause QRM during the contest.
>
> HNY to all.
>
> Stan, K4SBZ
>
> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
>
>> On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:49 PM, " pcooper" <pcooper at guernsey.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, and a very HNY to you all!
>>
>> JT65, and JT9, are modes that you can indeed use when RTTY would be 
>> inaudible. I prefer JT65 for no apparent reason, but JT9 is certainly 
>> more efficient, both in terms of bandwidth, and power levels used.
>> I've been using both (but mostly JT65A) for some while now, and it is 
>> amazing what you can work when the bands are flat.
>>
>> When I first started, I thought it would be good to join the JT-user 
>> group on Yahoo. It seemed pertinent, and would be useful in finding 
>> out what is good practice.
>>
>> Well, that was not my experience of that particular group! They were 
>> extremely anti-RTTY, and I when I mentioned that I used both modes, I 
>> ended up with more than a few direct emails that were enough to make 
>> me decide to un-join the group, and quickly!
>> There are several users that specifically use RTTY during a contest 
>> to tell folk to clear off the JT65 frequencies. They generally won't 
>> provide a callsign, and I saw a couple of users letting others know 
>> the best ways to interfere with RTTY signals.
>> These are calls I now avoid like the plague when I am using the mode.
>>
>> OK, I know it is good practice not to interfere with others users of 
>> the band, and it is fair to say that you may often not be able to 
>> hear them, which doesn't mean they aren't there, but these few were 
>> very anti-RTTY, and made very few comments about CW invading "their 
>> space" during the likes of CQWW.
>>
>> Simply, it is NOT "their space", as digital modes are allocated a 
>> space where you can use whichever mode you choose.
>> That does not mean I will intentionally get in their way, but they 
>> are a very vociferous lot.
>>
>> If you have not yet tried either of these modes, then I can recommend 
>> them, as it is an impressive tool.
>> I've managed VK/ZL and W6/7/VE7 with just 20 watts of JT65 on 10m 
>> when RTTY would simply not work.
>> The apps by VK3AMA are extremely useful with either, and can me made 
>> to log into your logging software automatically.
>> At 5 minutes per QSO, it is not a rate mode, but still useful!
>>
>> There, that's my rant, off my chest, and done with.
>>
>> 73 de Phil GU0SUP
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