[TenTec] BPL, Harmful Interference

Thu Apr 8 23:08:09 EDT 2004

Hi Dennis,

Thank you for your reply,

True about the disaster for radio,  and yes,  reguarding this treaty, the US 
would probably not back away from it even others already have.

however it is also true that international law is a perception, not a 
reality.  Countries only abid by it when it is in their interests.  by that 
i mean the peoples interests...  Thus there is no authority that can truely 
enforce it.

73's
Rich
K5SF

>From: "Dennis Baumgarte" <dbaumgarte at hvc.rr.com>
>Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
>To: <tentec at contesting.com>
>Subject: Re: [TenTec] BPL, Harmful Interference
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:18:03 -0400
>
>Rich:
>  The U.S. would not do this for it would not only cause disaster in the
>radio law but would set a presedent that the US for business gain woud 
>frogo
>international law..
>
>Dennis AE2EE
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Detweiler" <rdetweil at hotmail.com>
>To: <tentec at contesting.com>
>Cc: <w1rfi at arrl.org>; <DJ5IL at aol.com>
>Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 2:19 PM
>Subject: RE: [TenTec] BPL, Harmful Interference
>
>
> > Using International Law may be a very good argument and a possible tool
>for
> > to convince the FCC.
> >
> > However,
> >
> > To depend on 'international law' is a dangerous prospect, The dependency
> > implies loss of ones sovereignty.
> >
> > International law is based on customary procedures, not so much actual
>legal
> > laws, A country, any country, can withdraw from a treaty or ignore
>sections
> > of a treaty at almost any time it begins to be contrary to the
>population's
> > interests.  This is done frequently without significant recourse.  The
>only
> > reason a country would follow international laws as such is if it were 
>in
> > both countries mutual interests.
> >
> > Even though the idea of using international law is intriguing, I for one
> > would be very careful in using it in anything more than a reminder that
>the
> > treaty is there.
> >
> > The markets may well dicatate the success or failure in the end.
> >
> > 73's
> > Rich
> > K5SF
> >
> >
> > >From: DJ5IL at aol.com
> > >Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
> > >To: tentec at contesting.com
> > >CC: w1rfi at arrl.org
> > >Subject: [TenTec] BPL, Harmful Interference
> > >Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:13:02 EDT
> > >
> > > > I'd appreciate some help in finding the definition of "harmful
> > >interference"
> > > > per 47 C. F. R. paragraph 15.5(b).  I'm working on my letter to the
>FCC
> > >and
> > > > my congressional representatives.
> > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Jim, W8KGI
> > >
> > >Jim,
> > >
> > >I follow the BPL discussion in your country with great interest. In
>Europe
> > >that dirty technology is called PLC (Power Line Communication) and  
>here
> > >in Germany we had to face that threat long before it became a topic in
>the
> > >USA. Unfortunately it seems to be barely known that all radio services
>are
> > >defined within and ruled by international law. I will take the
>opportunity
> > >to
> > >point out the most important and relevant details. It is quite
>astonishing
> > >that the
> > >International Telecommunication Union (ITU) and the Radio Regulations 
>are
> > >not even mentioned on the very detailed PLC information page of the 
>ARRL
> > >(http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/). Because I consider this to be
> > >very
> > >important, a copy of this email goes to Ed Hare, W1RFI 
>(w1rfi at arrl.org).
> > >
> > >The amateur radio service is defined within the International
> > >Telecommunication Convention of the ITU. Currently 189 states, among
> > >them the United States of America and Germany, have signed this
>Convention
> > >and the 'Radio Regulations' and thus are strictly bound to it.
> > >
> > >Here are some important definitions and articles of the Radio 
>Regulations
> > >which are binding law for all ITU member states:
> > >
> > >Radio Regulations, Article I, Terms and Definitions:
> > >
> > >"1.19 radiocommunication service: A service as defined in this Section
> > >involving the transmission, emission and/or reception of radio waves 
>for
> > >specific telecommunication purposes."
> > >
> > >"1.56 amateur service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose
> > >of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations 
>carried
> > >out by amateurs, that is, by duly authorized persons interested in 
>radio
> > >technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest."
> > >
> > >"1.96 amateur station: A station in the amateur service."
> > >
> > >"1.137 radiation: The outward flow of energy from any source in the
> > >form of radio waves."
> > >
> > >"1.138 emission: Radiation produced, or the production of radiation,
> > >by a radio transmitting station."
> > >
> > >"1.166 interference: The effect of unwanted energy due to one or a
> > >combination of emissions, radiations, or inductions upon reception in a
> > >radiocommunication system, manifested by any performance degradation,
> > >misinterpretation, or loss of information which could be extracted in 
>the
> > >absence of such unwanted energy."
> > >
> > >"1.169 harmful interference: Interference which endangers the 
>functioning
> > >of a radionavigation service or of other safety services or seriously
> > >degrades, obstructs, or repeatedly interrupts a radiocommunication
> > >service operating in accordance with these Regulations."
> > >
> > >Radio Regulations, Article 15:
> > >
> > >"15.12 ? 8 Administrations shall take all practicable and necessary
> > >steps to ensure that the operation of electrical apparatus or
>installations
> > >of any kind, including power and telecommunication distribution
> > >networks ... does not cause harmful interference to a 
>radiocommunication
> > >service and, in particular, to a radionavigation or any other safety
> > >service
> > >operating in accordance with the provisions of these Regulations."
> > >
> > >Radio Regulations, Article 25:
> > >
> > >"25.8 ? 5 1) All the general rules of the Convention, the Convention
> > >and of these Regulations shall apply to amateur stations."
> > >
> > >Please note thet the definition of "harmful interference" in the Radio
> > >Regulations that are binding law for all ITU member states does not
>contain
> > >a reference to any EMC emission limits. In fact, harmful interference 
>is
> > >not
> > >defined in quantity by exceeding any limits but *in quality* by it's
>effect
> > >on
> > >radio communications. By definition any effect of unwanted energy due 
>to
> > >one or a combination of emissions, radiations, or inductions upon
> > >reception in a radiocommunication system is an interference. If such an
> > >interference seriously degrades, obstructs, or repeatedly interrupts 
>any
> > >radiocommunication service operating in accordance with these
> > >Regulations it is a harmful interference, no matter which standards are
> > >met or not met by the source of interference. In that case,
>administrations
> > >shall take all practicable and necessary steps to stop that 
>interference.
> > >
> > >The essential EMC requirements are that electrical and electronic
> > >appliances shall be so constructed that: the electromagnetic 
>disturbance
> > >it generates does not exceed a level allowing radio and
>telecommunications
> > >equipment and other apparatus to operate as intended and the apparatus
> > >has an adequate level of intrinsic immunity to electromagnetic
>disturbance
> > >to enable it to operate as intended. EMC standards define technical
> > >characteristics which can be used to meet these essential requirements.
> > >However, and this is important, if such appliance meets the standards 
>it
>is
> > >only *presumed* to comply with the essential requirements, nothing 
>more.
> > >This is not just my personal interpretation but a fact that you can 
>find
>in
> > >many places, for example within the "EMVG" (EMC Act) as part of our
> > >national German law. In the case of EMC emission limits this is 
>logically
> > >the only possible way to go, because otherwise the standards would
> > >infringe the Radio Regulations and thus international law.
> > >
> > >The consequence is: If any electrical or electronic appliance, for
>example
> > >a PLC-modem, interferes with your reception and your station is in the
> > >amateur radio service, then you definitely have the right to complain 
>and
> > >it does absolutely not matter if the unwanted radiation from that
>appliance
> > >is within any EMC emission limits. Of course it is highly desireable to
> > >have
> > >EMC emission limits as low as possible, but regardless of any standards
> > >amateur radio as well as any other radio service as defined within the
> > >Radio Regulations are protected by international law. That's why it is 
>so
> > >important for us that amateur radio is defined as a radio *service* in
> > >contrast to other radio applications.
> > >
> > >Radio amateurs should not hesitate to complain in the case of harmful
> > >interference and show that they know their rights. The more complaints
>the
> > >authority receives, the higher is the chance that the administration 
>will
> > >favour low emission limits, because they have to fear a disaster when
>they
> > >are forced to solve thousands of cases of harmful interference.
> > >
> > >73
> > >Karl, DJ5IL
> > >_______________________________________________
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> > >TenTec at contesting.com
> > >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
> >
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