[TenTec] Emergency Power via Generator - Natural Gas

[David S. McCallum]

Boy Oh Boy How Much More????. Mac

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Cunnings" <bob.cunnings at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Emergency Power via Generator - Natural Gas


>I know this is only anecdotal, but here goes -
> 
> years ago, when I lived in Michigan, I drove a propane powered pickup
> truck. That darn thing would *not* start at temperatures below 0
> degrees F or so. I would always need to drive my gasoline powered car
> on a morning colder than that!
> 
> Yes 0 F is pretty cold, but overnight lows fell below that point more
> than a few times each winter (in those days), and I still had to go to
> work.
> 
> After 3 years I sold it because refueling was a hassle, with propane
> stations set up to refuel vehicles few and far between out in my neck
> of the woods. The upside was that it was economical, at least at that
> point in time.
> 
> Bob NW8L
> 
> On 3/7/07, Gary Hoffman <ghoffman at spacetech.com> wrote:
>> Things will be better, but not perfect.
>>
>> You are right that your natural gas is delivered to the house as a gas, and
>> you will never freeze up your gas supply lines in the same way you could
>> have frozen up an undersized propane tank.  All to the good.
>>
>> Natural gas engines I am told, will start, on the other hand, better than
>> propane engines, but not so well as gasoline engines.  This is because there
>> is less expansion of the natural gas in the engine itself, thus less
>> chilling effect, but it is not zero.  Hence they start better but not
>> perfectly.
>>
>> One must point out in fairness that gasoline also endures a chilling effect
>> in the engine as well.  However, there is more mass available in liquid form
>> to keep it from freezing (only for a while !) until the engine starts up and
>> self-heats.
>>
>> My bottom line on this is that I would take prudent steps to keep the
>> natural gas powered engine in a warm environment.  It should be insulated
>> and heated.  Then, when the power goes off, it starts out nice and warm,
>> fires up easily, and will thereafter self heat while you are running it.
>> That is how Coleman sells their larger units commercially.  Both propane and
>> natural gas fueled.  Go look at them in the stores.  You will see the
>> cabinet, the insulation, and the electric heaters.
>>
>> The same serious problems about cold batteries apply to any engine that you
>> attempt to start automatically with an electric starter.  If the battery is
>> just so cold, the chemical reaction comes to a halt, and you will NOT get
>> power out of the battery.
>>
>> Likewise the oil.  Unless you use a good synthetic rated for extreme cold,
>> the viscosity will be so high that you will not rotate that engine,
>> regardless if you somehow get power out of the battery.
>>
>> Unless of course you heat the oil, battery, engine and all, inside that warm
>> cabinet.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <ac9s at mchsi.com>
>> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 7:55 PM
>> Subject: [TenTec] Emergency Power via Generator - Natural Gas
>>
>>
>> > "I am talking about the propane feed into the engine itself.  The rapid
>> > expansion of the propane causes sub-zero temps inside the engine, unless
>> the
>> > ambient supplies enough heat to compensate.  That is why they won't start
>> up
>> > if it is too cold unless they are in a warm enough ambient."
>> >
>> > Can I assume I will not have the same cold weather starting problems with
>> a
>> > natural gas powered generator - ignoring the cold oil and battery issues
>> of
>> > coures?  I don't think the natural gas is fed to the house as a liquid, or
>> if
>> > it is I assume it turns to gas in the regulator as the house feed.  We are
>> > lucky enough to have natural gas to the house and are just about to commit
>> to
>> > a whole house generator - powered by natural gas.  The main purpose is to
>> keep
>> > the sump pumps alive during rainy weather here in central Illinois, but I
>> am
>> > about to retire and would like to be able to travel with a reasonable
>> > assurance of the heat staying on during the winter.
>> >
>> > Thanks much --
>> >
>> > Keith
>> > AC9S
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > TenTec at contesting.com
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>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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