[TenTec] Any update on a replacement for the Orion II?

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Rick,
 
Thank you for that explanation.
 
Although I work in IT, I don't do any programming of contest related software, so I hadn't heard of Omni-Rig before.  And I'm sure many other contesters haven't either, for some or all of the very reasons you mention.
 
Now:  What scares me in your description is this:
 
If the middle ware app, be it Omni-Rig or something like it, is the reason that a particular rig (such as the Eagle in this case) is or is not going to be compatible with the various logging software applications that are or will be coming into widespread use... and the developer or whomever takes over the software maintenance & updating of the middle ware app decides, for whatever reason, to not add that support for a particular rig...
 
Then the people behind the middle ware app control which radios will be considered for use by the contest community, and by extension, the bulk of the active Amateur Radio community.
 
In other words... the tail will be wagging the dog.
 
I select the rigs in my shack on a number of factors.  Compatibility with software has never been one of them, nor do I believe it should be.  I'm willing to accept that if I buy a brand new rig, it might not have compatibility with software for awhile; some time lag is acceptable.  But I should not have to consider that this compatibility might not ever be there.
 
And what happens if those software developers/maintainers decide to drop support for an existing rig?  Do I have to choose between software that's not been updated & my rig?  Imagine, if you will, that a major change has been made to several contests, which requires updated logging software... and suddenly, there's no support for any Ten Tec rig.  That's quite a choice to have, especially on the eve of the event... run the old software that doesn't support the change, or ditch your favorite (and often superior) Ten Tec gear in favor of something that the new software supports.
 
You and I (and many others reading this) know that there has been a vocal anti-TT contingent on certain web forums, dating back years.  Imagine if the reason for the lack of updates for TT gear, or the dropping of support for it altogether, comes down to a software writer decision that "stick it" to the TT community, because for whatever rational or irrational reason, he doesn't like products from TN?  (Think it couldn't happen?  Considering human nature, it most certainly could)
 
I don't want to veer too off topic on this... but I am very troubled by this.  In large part because, well, I still use CTWin for most of my contest logging; it works very well with my Omni VI+ (haven't tried to interface it with the 'new' Omni VII yet), and I don't need the other ancillary control features... yet.  That said, I know that CTWin has it's limitations, so I've been looking around.  To now learn that most of the packages that I've been looking into can NOT fully support some of the equipment out there, simply because the middle ware author(s) have declined to write drivers for them...  that's very, very troubling.
 
73, ron w3wn


On 04/07/14, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:

Ron,

I understand why you write that; all very logical.

First of all, it's not a fault of the rig. IMO it was very innovative for
Ten-Tec to add a USB rather than COM port. After all, when's the last time
we say a com port on a computer at Best Buy? (especially laptops)

As John correctly pointed out, USB is seen by the software as a virtual COM
port.
"Should be" simple to make it work. 
But somebody has to do it and just setting up the COM port doesn't solve the
problem. 
In fact the COM port is set up automatically for interfacing with the Eagle,
simply by selecting "ORION2" as your radio (within the software). It's not
the interfacing itself that causes the problem, it's the commands that are
missing which causes the problem.

I had never heard of Omni-Rig either until I found out it was the reason my
Eagle did not function properly with my contest software. Then I dug deep
down into it to find out why.

Most people have never heard of any middleware - at least not any specific
piece of middleware, and that is intentional.
We (the users) don't need to know about middleware.
Middleware is a general enabler to ease the pain of writing software.
It is a blessing to software programmers community.

Omni-rig (itself) is not something used by my club, not even by any club. 
It is something used by MANY "3rd part software programmers" for all kinds
of ham radio software.

Omni-Rig is a very popular FREEWARE software which is a "COM component for
transceiver/receiver CAT control."
It enables SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS to write any application they choose, 'using
one single rig interface' and upon release, 
WILL RUN WITH ABOUT 75 DIFFERENT RADIOS, RIGHT OUT OF THE BLOCKS.

If you write ham radio software and make it compatible with the Omni-Rig
API, you immediately have seamless integration to the following radios:

<> TS-440, TS-480, TS-570, TS-590, TS-690, TS-850, TS-870, TS-930, TS-2000,
all other Kenwoods 

<> FT-100D, FT-747, FT-817, FT-840, FT-847, FT-857, FT-897, FT-900, FT-920,
FT-950, FT-990, FT-1000, FT-1000MP, FT-2000, FT-9000, FT-DX5000MP 

<> IC-78, IC-275H, IC-703, IC-706MKII, IC-706MKiiG, IC-718, IC-725, IC-728,
IC-735, IC-737, IC-746, IC-746Pro, IC-751, IC-756, IC-756Pro, IC-756ProII,
IC-756ProIII, IC-761, IC-765, IC-775, IC-781, IC-7000, IC-7200, IC-7315,
IC-7410, IC-7600, IC-7700, IC-7800, IC-R75, IC-R8500, IC-R9000, IC-910,
IC-970D 

<> CODAN, Elecraft K2, Elecraft K3, JST-245, DX-77, NRD-535(DG), PowerSDR,
Perseus, FRG-100

Ten-Tec Paragon II, Ten-Tec Orion, Ten-Tec Omni VI+, Ten-Tec Omni VII,
TenTec RX-350, 


** NOTICE THAT THE EAGLE IS MISSING FROM THIS COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF RADIOS!


SO I CONTACTED THE AUTHOR OF Omni-Rig (Alex, VE3NEA) and asked him to please
add the Eagle.
His response was, "he was not going to do it because the Eagle uses USB."
He went on to say that I should do it myself. I tried and failed.

My club, as many others, happens to use 'Win-Test' for contest logging - and
Win-Test uses Omni-Rig.
The KC1XX contest station runs Win-Test too.
I doubt many of our members have even heard of Omni-Rig, but they are all
using it with knowing it.

Win-Test is one of many good logging programs. We chose it when we went
away from CT about 10 years ago. We have 400 members familiar with it. But
that's just us. Each contest team or each DX team has their own story. It
takes a long time to adapt any standard into a big organization and you
don't change your standards because of some new whim.

If you want to get some new radio to be accepted by the DX or Contest
community, it has to fit into their existing infrastructure, you can't
expect them to change their routine to adapt to the new radio - unless
somebody comes up with TS-990-like performance for the price of an FT-450.


"It can be done" - does not mean that it makes sense for everyone to do it.

<>First of all, the more complexity you add to any solution, the greater the
chances for a visit by Murphy.

<>Second of all, if it is software complexity rather than hardware, the
fewer the number of members of your team who would be able to fix it if it
fails to run properly. 

<>Third, in today's team contesting, we currently have a new problem that
the OVERFLOW OF INFORMATION coming from the CW skimmers feeding the bandmap
is bringing all but the fastest of computers to their knees. Mine
completely crumbled last year and was no longer capable to send CW properly.
I had to send the entire contest by hand, which wastes time and is
counterproductive. Contest logging used to be a peanut application that
would run on any computer. Now days you need a computer with a Dual-Core 2+
GHz CPU to even begin to cope with the task.
THE LAST THING WE NEED TO DO IS ADD YET ANOTHER SOFTWARE APPLICATION TO THE
SCENARIO, JUST TO GET IT TO RUN WITH AN EAGLE. 

I think the process Carl proposed would frighten off many would-be users.
It scares me enough that I intend to try it several months before the CQWW
contests, just in case I don't manage to get it working. 
I will be thrilled if I succeed, but I do not pretend that I could ever sell
the idea of using the Eagle to my fellow club members. 

If Carl says it will work, I have full confidence in the plan (and the
software).
"Rick" is the weakest link in that game plan!
WHEN CAN YOU COME TO GERMANY, CARL?

My personal solution to the problem is, I will drop out of the "Assisted"
category and turn off the flow of all of that data from the Internet. I
want to enter the new "Classic" category which limits operation to just 24
hours and no use of external DX spotting. Then I will use N4PY software to
mate to Win-Test and do as Carl suggests.
I just hope Carl is near his keyboard when I set that up for the first time!

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)

-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Notarius W3WN
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 3:25 AM
To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Any update on a replacement for the Orion II?

Rick,

OmniRig, whatever it is, is something I've never heard of before. I've
never even heard mention, or hints, of it before on the CQ Contest
reflector, or anywhere else.

If this is something that is used by your contest club, and only by your
contest club... I don't see how it could be a "deal breaker" for the rest of
us. (And if it is simply an issue of having the correct driver written...
but the software author refuses to write the driver... I don't see how this
is the fault of the rig. It comes across as, well, some other things that
don't come across to nicely, so we'll just let that pass for now.)

In any event... I would think that the issue of items 1 & 2 on your list are
certainly addressable. Maybe the question should be not "if Ten-Tec could
easily address" them... but how we (the users or potential users) would
address them considering the design of the rig.

Further, considering your comment that N4PY has said that it can be done
through his software, that tells me that it CAN be done. 

So I don't think this is at all the "deal breaker" you make it sound out to
be.

73, ron w3wn
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