[TenTec] TECHNICAL: Wish List for ORION-III

Wed Apr 9 17:58:49 EDT 2014

Ok this is the test I just did.

I used my Kenwood TS2000 as the receiver.

I have a 6 position rotary switch that grounds the unselected positions. 
  This switch is what I use to move my antenna farm form rig to rig.

First I transmitted a dit stream at 14.080 from my 6500 at 100 watts. 
The 6500 had an antenna connected to it through the rotary switch.  The 
TS2000 antenna input was grounded.

As I transmitted, the TS2000 when tuned to the exact frequency of the 
6500 showed a pegged S9+60 reading.  Moving the TS2000 up and down the 
band showed a hash sound at a zero S meter reading.

I then switched in my Omni VII on the same frequency.  The Omni VII was 
then connected to my antenna farm.  I transmitted the same dit stream at 
100 watts at the same frequency.  Again the TS2000 showed a pegged S 
meter right on the same frequency of S9+60.  I then tuned up and then 
the band and heard the same hash sound.  But this time the hash was all 
S5 instead of S0.

My conclusion is the 6500 is putting out at least 30 db lower band noise 
than the Omni VII.

I don't have my Orion here to test with.

Carl Moreschi N4PY
58 Hogwood Rd
Louisburg, NC 27549
www.n4py.com

On 4/9/2014 4:01 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that if I had the time to go through the hundreds of emails
> Rob has sent me, I would find the one talking about this broadband noise.
> He listed a few transceivers which surprised me.  I believe the 6500 was on
> the list.  For sure another very expensive (European) SDR transceiver was on
> that list.
>
> For now I will just say I retract everything I said at all about the 6500,
> AND Carl, you can find out if 5 minutes if it's true or not.
> Just do as I suggested in my previous post.
> Then we will all know.
>
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Moreschi
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 9:55 PM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] TECHNICAL: Wish List for ORION-III
>
> You just should not comment about things you don't now about.
>
> Carl Moreschi N4PY
> 58 Hogwood Rd
> Louisburg, NC 27549
> www.n4py.com
>
> On 4/9/2014 3:40 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>> Carl, I'm talking about TX noise, not RX noise.
>> And I don't think I am being unfair when I repeat things which I have
>> heard Rob Sherwood say.
>> I only clearly stated that I was not sure if the 6500 radio is like
>> this but most of the others are.
>>
>> Do the following.
>> Set up your 6500 on an antenna and set up one of your other radios on
>> another antenna.
>> Listen on the other rado and key the 6500 in SSB mode without speaking
>> into the mic.
>> If it creates a broad noise across all bands, disturbing the other
>> receiver, it's noisy.
>> This is that broadband noise I'm speaking about.
>>
>> You have a 6500, please try it and tell us.
>> I've never even seen one.
>>
>> Also, repeat the test using the Orion as the TX.
>> It will be clean, I know for sure!
>>
>> People often forget that a lot of other things factor in when you are
>> trying to operate in a multi-TX environment.
>> If you are using the radios one at a time, they are usually just fine.
>>
>> AT THIS POINT I HOPE ROB SHOWS UP TO BAIL ME OUT (hi).
>>
>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>> Moreschi
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 7:28 PM
>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] TECHNICAL: Wish List for ORION-III
>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> That's very unfair of you to accuse the 6500 of being a broad band
>> noise generator.  I am an avid DX'er and seacrh for signals right at
>> the noise level.  My 6500 hears ever bit as well as my Omni VII,
>> Eagle, Argo VI, TS2000, 746Pro, Jupiter, Orion, and K3.
>>
>> The Flex 5000 and others like it were direct conversion receivers.
>> The
>> 6500 is an entirely new animal.  It takes 0 to 77 mhz at the front end
>> and converts the entire band width to digital data.  There are band
>> pass filters for each ham band that can be used or not used. Because
>> the clip point is so high at S9+80 db, the band pass filters are rarely
> needed.
>> The results with this radio are truly astonishing.
>>
>> Carl Moreschi N4PY
>> 58 Hogwood Rd
>> Louisburg, NC 27549
>> www.n4py.com
>>
>> On 4/9/2014 1:50 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>>> One last addition to the list, but then I must get on with my day job.
>>>
>>> But before I add a point, I want to confirm what someone else said
>>> earlier and thank him for saying it.
>>> (sorry, forgot who posted it)
>>>
>>> CLEAN TRANSMITTER
>>>
>>> IMD and wideband noise are indeed very important.  ESPECIALLY the
>>> wide band noise if you want to work multi-multi.
>>>
>>> In another thread the Merits of the Flex 6500's RX were highlighted,
>>> but I know many similar radios have turned out to be broadband noise
>> generators.
>>> I think the 6500 is too but I DO NO KNOW FOR SURE.  IMO, again it is
>>> the missing crystal filter that is part of the problem.
>>>
>>> Now my NEW POINT:
>>>
>>> Please improve the IP2 of the O3.
>>>
>>> I don't recall the IP2 of the O2 but in the O1 and most other Ten-Tec
>>> transceivers, the IP2 was relatively low (about 65dB).
>>> Most of the focus for the past 30 years has been on IP3 - which is
>>> indeed more important, but here in Europe, a weak IP2 also has
>>> significant problems.  Specifically, when operating on 20m with a
>>> multiband antenna that is high and in the clear, at night you can
>>> hear a carrier on 20m, every 10 kHz.  These are shortwave broadcast
>>> stations breaking though INSIDE the receiver, it's not their
>>> harmonics.  Monoband antennas help reduce this effect.
>>>
>>> THE TEN-TECS WERE WORSE THAN THE (SAME CLASS) JA RADIOS IN THIS RESPECT.
>>>
>>> BTW, Stuff like an Icom 706  were utter CRAP in this respect.
>>> At night in my RV, even on the mobile antenna the carriers were
>>> between 55 and 57 every 10 kHz.  I had to insert a preselector or
>>> Dunestar BPF to eliminate it and be able to work 20m.
>>>
>>> PLEASE IMPROVE IP2.
>>>
>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>
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