[TenTec] How much for an Orion III?

Tue Apr 15 03:09:53 EDT 2014

Ah... Yes... I suppose this has strayed a scoche a little off topic, but 
I enjoy the history, and it sure beats the usual 
"My-rig-can-beat-u-your-rig" "Ten vs Brand X"  spitting match !    ;-)

I am confident they destroyed some of that equipment to keep the "enemy" 
from getting our "good" stuff during the Cold War, and while it was 
wasteful, it did constitute a government funded subsidy to the industry, 
in general, and was part of a program to continually update and improve 
systems over time, so I suppose some good came of it.  It was already 
paid for, so hams had to buy new stuff, further supporting the industry 
with new sales.

I believe my History Professor told us, back then there was a Federal 
legal limit on total military spending to something like 7 percent (I 
think) of GNP, so it was not "totally" out of control.

Thus, R&D at Collins and TenTec and other outfits was funded by 
government purchasing, from which some benefit has trickled down to us 
taxpayer consumer types.

(At least that is my story... and I am ... sttttttt-ickkkk-ing to it.)   ;-)

Happy days!
----------------------------- K8JHR ----------------------

On 4/14/2014 9:37 PM, Scott Harwood wrote:
> Hey guys, what does this have to do with a future OIII and it's cost.  As a former USAF officer in charge of intelligence security for my unit in good old south east Asia , who cares?  We're dealing with TenTec issues here.  Just my two cents worth.
>
> 73
>
> Scott K4VWK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cecil <chacuff at cableone.net>
>> Sent: Apr 14, 2014 9:03 PM
>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>
>> Yep....google the St. Julian's Creek massacre for pictures of piles of R-390 series receivers sitting out in the weather.  Fortunately the destruction of those were stopped and all were sold surplus...but that was the end.  As I understand it everything since then has been shredded....lots of R-1051 series receivers...not my favorite...but still ashamed.
>>
>> Cecil
>> K5DL
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 14, 2014, at 4:32 PM, Jim Vohland <n9vo at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not sure that I understand the story of destroying the equipment based on having received "classified signals".  There is no way a kwm-2/2a or s-line could have encrypted or decrypted signals. They were receivers/transmitters, not cryptographic. In the navy, any classified radio equipment had manuals which stressed exactly which circuit boards were classified and requirement destruction in a specific manner. Unclassified portions of the equipment required no special effort. a vacuum tube doesn't retain signals. Stories of R390's languishing abound also. Probably due more to a glut of old equipment. SP600's, R390s, R1051 and even some ten-tec receivers were used for intercept operations. Many made it to civilian/unclassified use. No security issues.
>>>
>>>> From: wn3vaw at verizon.net
>>>> To: tentec at contesting.com
>>>> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 17:19:28 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>>
>>>> Well, the story of the stupid destruction of those KWM-2/2A's and S-Lines is
>>>> an old story.  Sad to say, while there are variations on the theme, it's a
>>>> common story from almost any US military installation, regardless of the
>>>> branch, that was decommissioning the units at the time.
>>>>
>>>> In essence, someone high enough up simply didn't want to "take any chances"
>>>> about ANY electronics that MIGHT have been used to encrypt/decrypt secure
>>>> communications.  So, he or she ordered that they take the benefit of the
>>>> doubt... and destroy EVERYTHING.  Which included all of that Collins gear,
>>>> and more.
>>>>
>>>> That's one of the reasons, I have been told, that the flood of MilSurplus
>>>> equipment that used to flood the Amateur market has dried up.
>>>>
>>>> Now, the good news is, a good bit (though not nearly enough!) of that gear
>>>> was... intercepted before destruction, and ended up in MARS stations, or
>>>> MilRec stations, or even, eventually, in private hands (I don't want to know
>>>> how!!)
>>>>
>>>> Still, it's a real shame.
>>>>
>>>> Could you imagine, though, what the Amateur used equipment market would have
>>>> been like if a flood of MilSurplus KWM-2's had suddenly become available?
>>>>
>>>> Oh well.  So it goes.
>>>>
>>>> 73, ron w3wn
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of k6jek
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 4:11 PM
>>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>>
>>>> I would have had nightmares for years if I'd witnessed that. I may have them
>>>> anyway just hearing about it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 14, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure there was... Government stupidity and its insistence on wasting tax
>>>>> payers' money!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of James
>>>>> Duffer
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:17 PM
>>>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>>>
>>>>> Such a sad tale.  Sorry to hear of such destruction of good and harmless
>>>>> equipment.  Harmless as there was no "just" reason for the destruction.
>>>>> Jim, wd4air
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Rick at DJ0IP.de
>>>>>> To: tentec at contesting.com
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 20:09:03 +0200
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can answer some of that, first hand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In about 1973, the US Army in Europe (USAREUR) decided to close down
>>>>>> hf and go fully to VHF and UHF.
>>>>>> Hundreds of S-Lines and KWM-2A's were collected and brought to the
>>>>>> army disposal center in south western Germany.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was custodian of a MARS station in Berlin and on TDY in the area of
>>>>>> the disposal center, so I dropped in to see if I could scrounge
>>>>>> anything to distribute through the MARS channels to our members.
>>>>>> There I witnessed the beautiful Collins radios stacked by the hundreds,
>>>> in
>>>>> an area of about 50 ft.
>>>>>> by 75 ft - being destroyed!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There were a few guys working hard destroying them.  Every tube was
>>>>>> being broken with a hammer and the chassis of each was cut in half with a
>>>>> torch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems they had been used by the Army Security Agency and they were
>>>>>> afraid there might be some residual top secret data still inside some of
>>>>> the tube.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did everything I could to try and stop the action but to no avail.
>>>>>> Everyone on site was just following orders and they were not willing
>>>>>> to pause while I tried to find a solution.  All of the radios were all
>>>>>> completely destroyed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was in tears.  I could have made every MARS member in Germany's
>>>>>> dream come true if some moron hadn't have taken the decision to destroy
>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So that's what happened to our military S-Lines here in Europe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dave
>>>>>> Edwards
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 6:16 PM
>>>>>> To: tentec at contesting.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also interesting (to think about)...
>>>>>> I wonder what percentage of them still exist today?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many does the government still own?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many remain on dusty shelves somewhere....unopened???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ....Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/14/14, 9:56 AM, Rsoifer at aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I asked Rod, K0DAS (retired from Rockwell Collins), how many  KWM-2s
>>>>>>> were bought by hams rather than Uncle Sam.  He said that nobody
>>>>>>> really knows, but his best guess is that the U.S. armed forces
>>>>>>> bought between  1/4 and 1/3 of them.  Some went to other government
>>>>>>> agencies as well  as foreign governments.  That still leaves quite a
>>>>>>> few that were
>>>>>> bought by  hams like me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73 Ray W2RS
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>>>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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