[TenTec] Pan-Adaptor vs. Using BandMap with Ten-Tec Transceivers

Wed Nov 5 07:58:45 EST 2014

Rick, you're NOT looking at a bandmap on http://n1eu.com/n1mm/cwso2v.htm -
you're just looking at the sequence of stations worked on each vfo/rx going
from top to bottom so you can follow along when listening to the linked
audio.

I'm using the vfoA and vfoB bandmaps in N1MM Logger during the 20 minute
recording.  I'm working the vfoA bandmap from bottom of the band upwards in
the main rx while simultaneously working the vfoB bandmap from top of the
band downwards in the subrx.

73, Barry N1EU

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at dj0ip.de> wrote:

> Barry, what are we looking at here?
> The left (blue) side says Main RX - right (orange) says Sub RX
> Is that the way your bandmap looks on the N1MM screen?
>
> Mine looks completely different, which is unimportant, but mine shows
> frequency information next to each call sign. That way I never even look at
> the radio, I just keep my eyes focused on the BandMap.
>
> Agree, I also like to run old fashion contests, but those are usually the
> little and local ones.
> In fact I'm looking forward to running my new (to me) Scout in QRP contests
> like that.
> I will disable its final amp board and bypass it.
>
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Barry
> N1EU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 1:39 PM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Pan-Adaptor vs. Using BandMap with Ten-Tec
> Transceivers
>
> Rick, I run almost 100%  in the assisted category.
>
> Yes, in my more serious efforts, I aggressively use the bandmap.  Here's
> one
> example:  http://n1eu.com/n1mm/cwso2v.htm  (click audio link and listen
> as I
> work both vfoA and vfoB bandmaps simultaneously on my Orion)
>
> In my less serious efforts, I'm more likely to tune the band manually, old
> style.
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at dj0ip.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Well a BandMap is not exactly blind and dumb.
> > $1K towards a new radio is already a good start.
> >
> > Question Barry, do you run assisted or unassisted?
> > And the 2nd, have you used the BandMap aggressively?
> >
> > Before using a BandMap, and running just wire antennas (dipole) and
> > 600w, my typical score was about 500K.
> > The first year using the bandmap it jumped to 800K and the second year
> > to
> > 1M+.
> > And that without a properly integrated BandMap (lack of OmniRig support).
> >
> > A BandMap is worth a lot of money to me, but I didn't have to pay for
> > it because it is for free to everyone, assuming you have a good
> > contest logging software already.
> >
> > 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> > (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Barry
> > N1EU
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:40 PM
> > To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> > Subject: Re: [TenTec] Pan-Adaptor vs. Using BandMap with Ten-Tec
> > Transceivers
> >
> > It's not worth it.
> >
> > I think you either go "whole hog" with a Flex 6K or go blind, dumb and
> > happy with a classic radio.
> >
> > 73, Barry N1EU
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:06 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at dj0ip.de>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > GM Barry,
> > >
> > > Tnx for the input.  It's a valid point.
> > >
> > > If he's in the bandmap, I will also know that.
> > > If not, you're right, I will go right past him and not know he was
> there.
> > > Perhaps I'll miss him forever, but maybe I'll get him on the next pass.
> > >
> > > Honestly, I estimate my cost of implementing a good band scope to be
> > > about $1000, including the computer stuff I'll have to buy. There
> > > was I time I would have just reached into my pocket and pulled out
> > > the money, but now that I'm retired, that represents about 2 years
> > > of entire
> > ham radio budget.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to weigh this decision against what else I could buy with
> > > that money.
> > > I can name plenty of other things I don't have and right now and
> > > would prefer to spend my money on.
> > >
> > > A higher priority is a new NAS drive.  The old one has been running
> > > day and night for 5 years now.  I need to replace it before it breaks.
> > > That's already a couple hundred gone.
> > >
> > > Then there's a high power cross-needle watt meter.  I also would
> > > like a dual-line RF-Ammeter, so that I can measure current on both
> > > sides of openwire at the same time.  I'd like to buy and try the
> > > Ten-Tec RF-Speech Processor, and maybe even buy a headset with mic,
> > > just in case I ever go back on my word and do another SSB contest.
> > > But for that I would also need a voice memory box.  Lots more stuff
> > > to spend the money on instead of a bandscope.
> > >
> > > Agn, good point.  One which I hadn't thought about.
> > > TNX
> > >
> > > 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> > > (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Barry N1EU
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 11:49 AM
> > > To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] Pan-Adaptor vs. Using BandMap with Ten-Tec
> > > Transceivers
> > >
> > > When you're tuning the band in S&P, you can see in advance when
> > > coming to a frequency that the cq'ing station is momentarily
> > > listening and you know to pause on the frequency for a second and
> > > listen for the station to resume cq'ing rather than possibly tune right
> by him.
> > >
> > > 73, Barry N1EU
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at dj0ip.de>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I separated this out from the "Future Radio" thread.
> > > > Both of these features are here already today.
> > > >
> > > > I AM STILL TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE BANDSCOPE (or Pan-Adaptor)
> > > > WILL HELP "ME" in "my way" of working DX contests.
> > > > I know it helps for other things, but how will it improve my
> > > > contest
> > > score?
> > > >
> > > > For this thread, I hope you guys will focus on my specific problem
> > > > (which may very well be my slowness to understand), rather than
> > > > try to sell me the general benefits of using a Pan-Adapter for all
> > > > sorts of other applications.
> > > >
> > > > First, I understand that people have different interests and we
> > > > all like to play with technology.  I understand how it is fun and
> > > > helpful to
> > > others.
> > > > But for my needs?
> > > >
> > > > My main interest in operating are:
> > > >
> > > > .1.Working DX Contests (and only those Contests),
> > > >
> > > > .2.Working DX-peditions (especially the ones I sponsor),
> > > >
> > > > .3.And rag chewing on 80 in SSB.
> > > >
> > > > PLEASE FOCUS ONLY ON #1 FOR THIS THREAD.  TNX.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am still trying to understand how a pan-adaptor or bandscope
> > > > would help me in a DX contest. that is, help enough that it would
> > > > warrant the time, effort and cost necessary to add this feature to my
> Eagle.
> > > > It will take some hardware modification to "my" Eagle to do that.
> > > > I have an original version.
> > > >
> > > > Remember, every second spent watching that device (or anything
> > > > else) is one less second I could be making a QSO, and a QSO
> > > > usually takes just 5 seconds.
> > > >
> > > > So far nothing I have read has convinced me that it would be worth
> > > > the effort (with reference to improving DX Contest scores).
> > > >
> > > > Clearly it would be a big aid in chasing the DX-peditions.
> > > > I understand that.
> > > > It might even be an aid in my 80m rag chewing because it would
> > > > help me identify who is splattering up and down the band.
> > > >
> > > > BUT WHERE IS THE BENEFIT IN DX CONTESTING ?
> > > >  (since I am already making full use of the BandMap with external
> > > > spots and skimmer)?
> > > >
> > > > The only thing anyone has suggested so far which I fully accept
> > > > is, when you decide it's time to stop S&P and call CQ, it helps
> > > > locate a clear frequency.
> > > >
> > > > In a 48 hour CW contest, I might pause S&P and call CQ for a
> > > > while, but I only do that 2 or 3 times each night.
> > > > I don't do it in an SSB contest at all.
> > > >
> > > > I don't call CQ during the day because my signal is not strong
> > > > enough to hold a frequency. I have never needed longer than one
> > > > minute to find a frequency (160/80/40) and begin working.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > FIRST THE BANDMAP:
> > > >
> > > > When I am operating S&P, my BandMap which is fed by packet posts
> > > > and skimmers, shows me:
> > > >
> > > > .1.Call Sign and frequency of "Run" stations who are calling CQ
> > > >
> > > > .2. Whether or not I have already worked the stn.
> > > >
> > > > .3. If the station is a new Country, new Zone, or Both
> > > >
> > > > .4. All stations, including those that I cannot even hear because
> > > > propagation is not favorable to my QTH
> > > >
> > > > Of course #4 is the "gotcha" here with using the BandMap. Room for
> > > > improvement.
> > > >
> > > > But my gut feeling is, less than 25 of the posts I see are for
> > > > stations which I cannot hear.
> > > > And even if they are, a few hours later propagation changes enough
> > > > that they now become "live" for me.
> > > > So even though I can't hear (i.e. K3LR), I know not to call CQ on
> > > > that frequency.
> > > >
> > > > The BandMap is totally free for me, because my contest logging
> > > > software incorporates this feature.
> > > > My score has sky-rocketed upwards since I began using the BandMap
> > > > in contests.
> > > > This helped far more than using manual packet spots.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SECOND THE BANDSCOPE:
> > > >
> > > > Question: is there a difference between a bandscope and a
> pan-adaptor?
> > > >
> > > > BENEFITS:
> > > >
> > > > .1. Helps identify clear spots when I'm looking for a frequency to
> > > > call
> > > CQ.
> > > >
> > > > GOOD POINT.
> > > > But weak point for my type of operation because I rarely do this.
> > > > I don't think anyone does it a lot.  If you are strong enough to
> > > > hold a frequency, you just stay there.  Otherwise you do S&P.
> > > >
> > > > .2. Lets me know what is going on around my frequency.
> > > > Why should I care? My radio has excellent filters and in a
> > > > contest, I must go to cluttered frequency to work the rare
> > > > multipliers, regardless of what's going on around it.
> > > >
> > > > When working S&P, I usually don't stay on one frequency longer
> > > > than
> > > > 15 or
> > > > 20
> > > > seconds, then I move on.
> > > >
> > > > If I'm calling CQ, I still don't care.  If people are calling me
> > > > and I can work them, I'm on a good frequency.
> > > > The entire band is full of signals.  Otherwise I'm on another band.
> > > >
> > > > If I happened to settle down on the frequency of a rare DX
> > > > station, plenty of people will let me know; I send a "SRI" and QSY.
> > > >
> > > > Besides, the Band-Scope won't tell me that I have settled on a DX
> > > > station's frequency, but the BandMap will!
> > > >
> > > > .3.I can see when other bands are open.
> > > > GOOD POINT.  Actually EXCELLENT POINT.
> > > >
> > > > The packet spots show me this too, to some extent.  Certainly not
> > > > as well as the band-scope would.
> > > > For stations who have full automation, and can double-click to
> > > > change bands, this might be a lot more benefit.
> > > > I need too long to change bands because I have a manually tuned
> > > > amp, and manual antenna switch, and manual matchbox.
> > > > The up side to "manual" is, it usually doesn't break.
> > > > After each major contest, our BCC reflector is full of people
> > > > complaining about automated stuff that broke.
> > > >
> > > > My work-around:  I change bands and use the second VFO to scan the
> > > > band at a rapid rate in 1kHz steps.  I just listen to bursts
> > > > (without stopping).  If the band is full, I consider changing.  It
> > > > takes a few minutes for the BandMap to populate, so it is not any
> > > > help for this operation.  This process costs me about 60 to 90
> seconds.
> > > >
> > > > .4. I don't know any others.  Other than it might be fun; but fun
> > > > doesn't improve my contest score.
> > > > HELP ME OUT HERE PLEASE:  _______________________
> > > >
> > > > DOWNSIDE OF BANDSCOPE FOR ME:
> > > >
> > > > .1.Cost.  I would not only incur the cost for whatever hardware is
> > > > needed, I would have to purchase a new computer.  It was suggested
> > > > not to use a laptop. This means I would need a computer, keyboard,
> > > > and monitor.  However my shack is tiny and already over-crowded,
> > > > which is one of the reasons I use a laptop.
> > > >
> > > > Doing this is not out of the question, but at the end of the day,
> > > > is it really going to improve my score significantly?  I can't see
> how.
> > > >
> > > > It's also very difficult to find a good US-English keyboard over
> here.
> > > > I'd probably have to pay shipping from the states.
> > > > Perhaps Scott (W4PA) could bring me one when he comes to visit
> > > > next
> > > summer.
> > > >
> > > > .2..Labor:  My early model Eagle motherboard does not have the
> > > > connection to run the IF out.  I don't mean the jack on the back,
> > > > I mean the connection on the printed circuit board.  I would have
> > > > to take a soldering iron to it.  I am technically competent, but
> > > > with poor eyesight.  If I do this, there is some risk that I might
> > > > break something. A round trip back to the factory costs $300.
> > > >
> > > > Again, please keep this thread focused on "how a Band-Scope can
> > > > help in DX-Contesting", and not break out in a general discussion
> > > > of the benefits of a band-scope.  I understand that there are
> > > > benefits in other aspects of the hobby.
> > > >
> > > > THANK YOU.
> > > >
> > > > 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> > > > (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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