[TenTec] din connector, etc. - AMP Keying

[Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP]

Oh I agree, all points Jim.

And I have been pressing Jack and John to address the timing point, and make
it adjustable.
I suggested doing it as Kenwood does it.

In November of last year we were discussing this again and I felt I finally
had their commitment to address it.
Then soon, other circumstances at Ten-Tec led to huge changes and my request
seems to have been brushed under the carpet again.

BTW, the speed up circuit is indeed excellent.
When used with the Ameritron amps, it is enough that the 15 or 17 ms will
suffice.
So for the Eagle the only remaining problem is the missing trailing
hang-delay.


BUT NOW CONSIDER SOMETHING DIFFERENT PLEASE:  DO WE "REALLY" NEED 'FULL'
QSK?

Before anyone says "yes", thinking it is black and white... well it's not.

Full QSK means you can hear between dits.

With 15 or 17 ms delay we can no longer hear between dits at high speeds,
but we can still hear between characters, which for all practical purposes
is just as good.

And with 25ms, we can hear between words even at 40 wpm.
That is fast enough to hear if someone else is calling on the same frequency
at the same time.

And that is good enough for me.  
Sure I prefer FULL QSK, but the question is, how much more is one willing to
pay for this tiny benefit?

When you're going 40 wpm, it is just a tiny instance before there is a pause
between words.  For all practical purposes, hearing between words is good
enough.  At least for me, and that's how I have been operating now for 35
years.

So for me, there are 3 classes of QSK:  between dits, between characters,
and between words.
Any of the three is a lot better than what we think of as the classical
Semi-BK.

I guess it all boils down to cost.
The cheapest QSK amp on the market is probably the Centurion.
Formerly it was the Centaur. 

Since I'm only allowed 750w here in DL, I can't see paying over $3K for an
amp with full QSK, when I can get an Ameritron AL-80 for half that price -
albeit with an open-frame relay.
So I help myself by using external time sequencing to get very near QSK
performance (between words).

And before you guys start blowing smoke at Ameritron amps, let me tell you
that I have two of these - An original AL-80A and its SB-1000 (AL-80A
clone). The original is 30 years old, the Heath is 25 years old.  Both have
been hauled all over Europe and Africa for 48 hour contests, dozens of
times.  One is on its original tube, the other is on its 2nd tube.
The biggest problem with the heath was the PIN-DIODE switching constantly
breaking, so I finally threw it out and went back to using my external
time-sequencing with its slow relay.

I built my own time sequencer, but since I only have one, I also bought a
commercial keyer that has that feature too, so that I have a backup for
contests.  Any WinKey can do it too.  Or you can generate it all from the
computer using a good contest software.  There are several ways to skin a
cat!

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)


-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 8:39 PM
To: tentec at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.

Understood, Rick.  But 17msec pretty much rules out QSK above about 18 WPM.
A strange design compromise for Ten Tec.  :)  Frankly, I'm both surprised
and disappointed to see Ten Tec go for the lowest common denominator -- they
never used to do that.  For my money, amps with open frame relays are for
ragchewing on SSB, not serious operating.

FWIW, delay in the K3 is continuously adjustable, and I think it is in the
FT1000MP too. I sold mine around 2008 to buy my K3s. The TS850, which I also
owned,  is fixed at about 8 msec. The K2 is 8 msec.

Also FWIW, K6XX published a simple "speed up" circuit for T/R relays quite a
few years ago, which he credits to K1KP. 
http://www.k6xx.com/radio/fastrely.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,9/24/2014 2:08 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
> Jim, I just sent an email explaining exactly how the Eagle works.
> The Orion and Omni VII both have 15mS initial delay.  The Eagle is 17.
>
> "17mS" is relative.
>
> For amps with vacuum relays or PIN Diode switching, it is long.
> For amps with open-frame relays it is too short.
>
> I have never seen an open-frame relay that can switch in all cases, no 
> matter what, in less than 20ms.
> The open-frame relay used in all Ameritron amps can occasionally take 
> as long as 22mS - even though Ameritron advertises 15mS.

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