[TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 156, Issue 4

Mon Dec 7 10:19:25 EST 2015

There is no delay listening to sidetone on the Flex 6000 series.  I run 
QSK all the time and it works very well.  There might be a small delay 
on the signal itself but not on the sidetone for keying feedback with a 
keyer.  The QSK is designed so even though there is about 150 msec 
latency, you still hear between dits and dahs for QSK feed back by dealy 
the received signal and placing it in between the current dits and dahs. 
  It's an ingenious system but it really works well.

Don't write something off that you have not tried.  If you actually used 
one you would be very pleasantly surprised.

Carl Moreschi N4PY
58 Hogwood Rd
Louisburg, NC 27549
www.n4py.com

On 12/7/2015 7:59 AM, rick at dj0ip.de wrote:
> Sorry Barry, latency measured on the Anan does not necessarily apply to the
> FLEX 6000.
>
> Less than a year ago it was 350mS on the 6xxx, as measured by Rob Sherwood.
>
> We've had this discussion before and Rob jumped in and confirmed the 350
> number.
> I'm not sure which reflector it was on.  Might have been here, might have
> been on the Eagle or OM7 reflector.
>
> As I said, it may have changed but not long ago it was at 350.
> Until someone steps up and states that (s)he has measured it and found it
> better, that's the number I'm sticking with for the Flex 6xxx radios.
>
> FB on the Anon latency numbers.
>
> At 25mS you can still hear in between dits at 40 wpm but just barely.
> When you go above that, you no longer hear between dits.
>
> After about 40 or 50ms latency, you (or rather I and a few friends) can no
> longer transmit clean CW by listening to the real time signal.  In that case
> we have to mute the radio and listen to the sidetone of the keyer because
> the delay is annoying and confuses the OP.
>
> Delay is still an issue but it has gotten a lot better.
>
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Barry N1EU
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 1:49 PM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 156, Issue 4
>
> Ha, I love a good tussle  ;-)
>
> I measured it on an ANAN-100D about a year ago.  I've seen numbers for the
> Flex 6K that are similar.  Latency of about 100-150msec for cw receive and
> ssb receive and transmit.  CW transmit latency in the ANAN and Flex is very
> low (on the order of tens of msec) because they both optimize it in the
> FPGA.
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 5:45 AM, rick at dj0ip.de<Rick at dj0ip.de>  wrote:
>
>> Yes, it used to be much worse.
>> It is now 350 mS unless there has been some VERY recent change.
>>
>> Barry, if you say it's better, please specify who measured it and
>> approximately when.
>> Otherwise I strongly disagree.
>>
>> I am quoting recent measurements by Rob Sherwood.
>> Somewhere buried in 10,000 emails I have a recent email from Rob
>> confirming this.
>> It was while running one of the big contests earlier this year.
>>
>> I'm not talking about old 5000 rigs, I mean the new flagship line, 6xxx.
>>
>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>> (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Barry
>> N1EU
>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 11:29 AM
>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 156, Issue 4
>>
>> Rick, the latency on the latest SDR offerings has come WAY down,
>> especially on the Flex 6000 series.  They ARE contest capable.
>>
>> I agree on the knobs.  I applaud the Flex Maestro interface panel - I
>> think it's a harbinger of products to come in the future, where many
>> vendors can offer various front panels that can be interfaced to many
>> different SDR types.  Or someone could write the code to use an Orion
>> front panel to control an SDR, etc.
>>
>> For me, the draw of the direct sampling SDR radios (ANAN, Flex 6K) is
>> that their receivers simply sound better than the best superhet/dsp i.f.
> radios.
>>
>> With the introduction of the not-overly-impressive IC-7300, perhaps
>> we'll be seeing several direct sampling (DDC/DUC) bundled in a fully
>> knobbed self-contained box in the next 1-3 years.
>>
>> 73, Barry N1EU
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 7:24 AM, rick at dj0ip.de<Rick at dj0ip.de>  wrote:
>>
>>> EXCEPT . . .  for latency and lack of affordable knobs.
>>>
>>> Last reviews I saw still had turnaround latency between TX and RX at
>>> 350 mS.
>>> If both ops are running SDR, and trying to run full QSK, that's 0.7
>>> seconds.
>>> It's gonna sound like "Chop Phooey" on the air!
>>>
>>> The set of knobs (Maestro) for the lowest cost $2000 Flex Radio (in
>>> the class that interests most of us) is $1200 or so.  OR...the big
>>> single knob from Flex will set you back $200 if you are willing to
>>> wait long enough to get one.
>>>
>>> A decent 3rd party set of knobs, such as the Wood Box Radio T-MATE-2
>>> probably has enough knobs for most of us, but it will set you back
>>> $300 AND Flex software won't support it.  You need a 3rd party
>>> software (i.e. N4PY Radio Control Software) to use it with your Flex.
>>> Get it all set up and working with your WIN7 computer, then upgrade
>>> to
>> WIN10 and watch the "real"
>>> fun begin.
>>>
>>> Other than that, there's not much wrong with the current crop of SDR
>>> radios...
>>>
>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>> (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Kim
>>> Elmore
>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 2:40 AM
>>>
>>> There's absolutely nothing wrong with SDR; I don't fully understand
>>> why so many people complain about it
>>>
>>>
>>> -------
>>>
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>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>
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