[TenTec] IC-7300 was Re: Omni VI instability, TCXO worth it?

[rick@dj0ip.de]

The only one (new) that comes to mind at that price is the TS-590SG.
I wouldn't touch any of those other SDR radios in a contest... though
several people here (whom I respect highly) have a different opinion.

If ICOM fixes that one bug, I will buy a 7300.
Heck, I might even buy one anyway and just use an attenuator in the RX ant
line.  That's all it takes.

The problem is, as I understand it, when you turn on the IP+ which is
supposed to improve it IP point of the radio making it less susceptible to
overload, the noise level rises 10dB and there is no improvement in
rejection to overload. 
THIS IS MY UNDERSTANDING AND MAY NOT BE CORRECT.  DO YOUR OWN DUE
DILLIGANCE.

Adam Farson has done an outstanding test and shows measured data on this
point but I'm not quite smart enough to understand it without some coaching.

See: http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7300/7300notes.pdf 

Way down deep inside he talks about this and shows measured data.

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)



-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Darrell
Bellerive
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 6:24 PM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: [TenTec] IC-7300 was Re: Omni VI instability, TCXO worth it?

This is Icom's first try with a direct sampling radio and from everything I
have read, they seem to have done a lot of things right and have produced a
good product. Yes, it does have some issues and shortcomings, but it will be
interesting to see what Icom does with this technology in the next few
years. Icom has the potential, with this technology, to put some pressure on
the other radio manufacturers.

Just curious, what other radios can one purchase NEW at this price point
that are better for contesting?

HRO list the IC-7300 at $1500. At a similar price point HRO lists:

APACHE LABS   ANAN-10   SDR Transceiver HF & 6 Meters 10 Watts $1,599.00
ICOM IC-7410   HF / 50 MHz 100 Watt Multimode Transceiver $1,579.95 
(Radio Discontinued)
KENWOOD TS-590SG   HF / 50 MHz 100 Watt Multimode Transceiver $1,309.95
KENWOOD TS-2000   HF / 50 / 144 / 430 MHz Multimode Transceiver - 100 
Watts   $1,429.95
YAESU FTDX1200   HF + 6m Multi Mode Transceiver   $1,249.95

Ten-Tec is currently not selling any new radios, and I suspect their price
point will be much higher.
And except for the K-3, one could get into the other Elecraft radios for a
similar price.
The Flex radios are all priced much higher, except for the FLEX-1500.

73, Darrell VE7IU

On 16-07-13 08:17 AM, rick at dj0ip.de wrote:
> The Icom radio looks nice but I'm afraid Icom may never address the 
> dither/randomization problem they have. This is a handicap in a 
> contest, as the radio blocks too early.
>
> The JA companies just don't seem to be very interested in addressing 
> problems with their products.
>
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul 
> Gates
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 4:43 PM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Omni VI instability, TCXO worth it?
>
> If it were me Iwould get the Icom radio.
> Paul, KW4BD
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 6:36 PM, Jim Allen 
> <jim.allen at longhornband.net>
> wrote:
>
>> It's not all bad.  When my Omni Vi opt. 3 had a transceive problem, I 
>> sent it in.  I had a few chats with the head tech describing the 
>> exact symptoms and eventually was told that there was no problem at 
>> all, verified on two separate benches.  It was about $120 shipping 
>> out and back.  No charge for the look-see.  Well, there WAS a 
>> problem.  It was not transceiving on the same frequency, just as I
claimed.
>>
>> I ended up sending it to a private repair guy, Wade, who used to 
>> participate here.  I've not seen him here in a long time.  He found 
>> some parts in the chain that needed replacing and that fixed it.  You 
>> might consider getting in touch with him.
>>
>> 73 de W6OGC Jim Allen
>>
>> When it came back,
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Jul 12, 2016, at 17:02, Peter Klein <pklein at threshinc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> A big thanks to everyone who responded. It's been two weeks now, and 
>>> I
>> have not heard a peep from Ten-Tec.  Not even a "sorry, we're swamped"
>> acknowledgement.  Which in itself is a partial answer, I'm sorry to 
>> say.  I love the radio. But if Ten-Tec is unwilling or unable to 
>> answer a clearly-written request within two weeks, and won't take 
>> phone calls, then one of the reasons why I bought Ten-Tec in the 
>> first place apparently doesn't exist any more.  Add to that the 
>> prohibitive and ever-increasing cost of even UPS Ground shipping, and 
>> Ten-Tec not suggesting a permanent fix when the had the radio in 
>> their shop for the same problem two and a half years ago.
>>> I am not impressed.  Yes, I sympathize with Ten-Tec's problems, and 
>>> the
>> general problem of supporting complex technical products. I spend 
>> over
>> 30 years in network administration and computer support. I know all 
>> about overly needy and clueless customers, maddeningly complex 
>> problems, and fire-breathing businessmen who think that anything 
>> beyond token service is a waste of the bottom line.  But I also know 
>> that I want my radio fixed, or at least be told how likely it is that 
>> it
> can be fixed satisfactorily.
>>> I own a decent Tektronix DVM and a consumer-grade Radio Shack 
>>> frequency
>> counter (resolutio 100 Hz), but no scope, and my space is limited.  I 
>> don't want to have to constantly fix my primary HF rig. Unless I hear 
>> from Ten-Tec, I will probably do the connector deoxidation, and tweak 
>> the 40m coil a bit in the same direction that fixed the problem 
>> before.  We'll see how that goes.
>>> But I must say, the Icom 7300 is looking more attractive all the time.
>> Icom service is right here in the Seattle area, so I could just drop an
>> Icom radio off there if I needed service.   Apologies for the heresy  :-)
>>> --Peter, KD7MW
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 7/4/2016 5:14 PM, Peter Klein wrote:
>>>> I queried service at tentec.com by email about the following issue 
>>>> last
>> Tuesday. I have heard nothing so far, so I thought I'd get some 
>> advice
> here.
>>>> Background:  I live in the Seattle area. I have modest wire and
>> vertical antennas. I'm not a contester or hard-core competitive DXer.
>> I do try to work DX when I can, and I might jump into a contest to 
>> snag a new country. But mostly I do HF digital (PSK, Olivia, MFSK), 
>> casual CW, or occasionally SSB.
>>>> I've owned my Omni VI for 20 years. It has the Option 1 DSP upgrade.
>> Over the years, the radio has several times developed a frequency 
>> instability issue. Over a time ranging between less than a second to 
>> a few seconds, the transceiver moves a few 10s of Hz off frequency, 
>> then
> "snaps"
>> back. It's mostly done this on 30m, occasionally on 20m, and now on 40m.
>> Lately, it happens on 40m, with a short "period," so if I am 
>> listening to a good, pure CW signal, it sounds like it has old-fashioned
"chirp."
>>>> The frequency shift occurs on both transmit and receive.  When it
>> happens, if I switch to another band, it does not happen there. It is 
>> intermittent. Sometimes it appears random, and sometimes appears 
>> temperature-related (for example after transmitting for a while, or 
>> if the radio has been just turned on in the last half-hour or so).
>>>> When it first happened (1997), Ten Tec Service advised me to tweak 
>>>> the
>> trimmer coil to the 30m mixer crystal 1/8 to 1/4 turn in either 
>> direction until the "drift and snap" stopped, and just live with the 
>> slight display error. I did, and later did the same thing to the 40m 
>> coil when that band acted up. It worked in both cases.
>>>> When it started to do the frequency dance on 20m, I sent back to 
>>>> the
>> factory for a tune-up. This was in October 2013. Now, it's doing it 
>> again on 40m.
>>>> I spoke to TenTec's service manager a few months ago. He said that 
>>>> the
>> problem might be solved by installing a temperature compensated 
>> crystal oscillator (the TCXO was never suggested before).  He said 
>> that I could install this myself if I could solder a couple of wires.
>> He quoted me a price of $200 to send me the necessary circuit board 
>> and instructions. He said it was up to me whether I wanted to spend 
>> $200
> on "an older radio."
>> He was also dead-set against my tweaking the trimmer coils to the 
>> individual band crystals.
>>>> I decided to wait and see if leaving the power supply on 24/7 would
>> solve the issue. Nope. And while I was waiting, Ten-Tec was sold and 
>> has new service policies.
>>>> I would like to install the TCXO, *IF* it is very likely that it 
>>>> will
>> solve the problem, and I can get at least another couple of years of 
>> good service out of the radio.  On the other hand, the radio is 20 
>> years old. So if it's just as likely that I will continue to have the 
>> problem, then maybe the TCXO isn't worth it, and I should think about 
>> a
> new radio.
>>>> So, what would you do if you were me?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks and 73,
>>>> --Peter, KD7MW
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> TenTec at contesting.com
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>
> --
> Darrell Bellerive
> VE7IU
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