[TOEC] SAC Landskamp contest is violating the basic fundamentals in all competition

[Mats Strandberg]

Sam,

With all respect to your comments, there are few systematic errors in your
argumentation.

The purpose of Scandinavian Cup is just to encourage participation from
Scandinavia in SAC. This is truly beneficial for all us who work SAC from
"the other side". Low participation = boring SAC.

We all know that Finnish forrests have a lot more space for huge rotatable
towers with stacked arrays than any of the other countries. We all know
that our brothers in the east put a huge pride in beating the neightbour in
the west. We all know they are fantastic to gather the troops for the Polar
Battle. We all know they are great and endurant operators.

In short, we know that OH always will beat SM if only the Top 5 stations
participate in the landskamp (as suggessted by you).

However, the purpose of the "landskamp" is not to confirm which country is
the "best" among Scandinavian countries. The competition is an artificial
adrenaline to stimulate activity and to create a hype around the
competition. As simple as that. Noone of us who really have been fighting
seriously in SAC from Scandinavian stations value the "victory" in the
national battle more than the joy of participating in an active SAC.

The winner of the contest is the first one in each category. To win Single
Op All Band High Power in Scandinavia from Sweden is very difficult
considering many different reasons. The most important one is that very few
of Swedish stations can be compared to the Finnish monster stations with
large rotatable towers and fully equipped and carefully tuned SO2R setups.

Therefore, the comparison and suggestion that you make (for cutting the
line) after the first 5 participants in each country, will make NO
difference whatsoever. OH will still win 100% sure.

Shall we ask our Finnish brothers to reduce the height os the towers and
cut down a few monobanders in their huge stacked arrays to "level the
competiton"?  Shall we allow just 100 Watts and dipoles at maximum 10
meters height for equality?

By the way, the comparison that there are "many more" OH hams in Sweden
than in Finland is also doubtful. If you look on the callbook lists,
perhaps yes... but if you look on the active contesting population, not
necessarily true.

Why are LA and OZ not metioned in the pre-contest discussion?  Simply
because in any competition, the most likely top scorers receive most
attention. We have always tried to stimulate participation from LA and OZ,
but as we are Swedes, the probability that our cheerleading will succeed is
not automatic :)  The improvement in participation from LA and OZ must
mainly come from themselves...  Sorry, when Sweden and Russia aim for the
first place in World Hockey Champtionships, we must accept that the
countries who will not survive the first round in competiton, will
unfortunately not receive so much attention in the pre-tournament
discussions. Life is like that, whether you like it or not. The only remedy
is to train harder, encourage more participation and challenge SM and OH
for the first places in SAC.

Your suggestion to draw the line at 5 stations would make SAC a very boring
activity for us abroad...  This would just stimulate the top and not the
masses of casual operators... and we would have worked those 5 stations in
each country during a few hours.  What would be the fun in SAC then?
Sleeping contest?

NO my vote is to keep Scandinavian Cup as it is, add the Team Competition
as a complement - and both your and my opinion will be winners. The Team
Competition exactly adds what you ask for, namely a fair duell between the
top 6 stations of each country.

Honestly I do not understand your entry in the debate this year, because
the problem as described by you is already 100% solved by introducing the
Team Competition.

73 de RM2D, Mats





2012/8/14 SM3PZG <sm3pzg at lsg.se>

> Hello everybody,
>
> I feel that the Landskamp in the SAC contest is violating the basic
> fundamentals in all competition and that is opponents should from start be
> equal in strength to make the competition as fair as possible. This
> fundamental fault just gives the contest a ridicules on unserious
> impression
> and something not to take seriously.
>
> In all individual sports great effort is taken to match opponents according
> to skills, experience and strength to make a fair match. Same in team
> competitions. In competitions between nations every nation sends their best
> players and they are proud the represent their country and of course make a
> 100% effort and go the distance.
>
> With the Olympic games in mind we don’t send ALL active swimmers or ALL
> active runners to the competition, we only send the ones that are qualified
> and that can make a honorable effort.  Same in the Finnkamp only first,
> second and third place count for points.
>
> In Sweden all hams are encourage to make just a few qsos and send in the
> log
> just to beat the Finns. It doesn't matter that everyone knows we have many
> more hams then OH not to mention OZ and LA. If we have 100 logs and the
> Finns only 40 logs and the Danish send 20 logs and the Norwegians send 10
> logs should we be proud to win over the Finns? Should we be proud to beat
> OZ
> and LA? Why are OZ and LA not mention in pre-contest discussion? How does
> OZ
> and LA feel about this Landskamp? It simply does not make sense and looks
> ridicules.
>
> A simple solution to the problem would be easy, just DRAW a LINE in the
> scoreboard. For example the SOAB category only the TOP 5 stations count in
> the Landskamp. This would have 3 very big benefits. First the competitions
> would be FAIR, second OZ and LA would be able to compete on the same terms
> as OH and SM. Third this would open up for a qualifying competition within
> each country to be one of the five stations to represent their nation and
> would most likely make more stations go the limit and make a better effort.
> Of course the complete scoreboard should be publish but results only count
> inside each nation.
>
> The only discussions the contest committee would have is to were to draw
> the
> lines in each category. The rule itself would be very easy to implement.
>
> So this is my suggestions on how to make the SAC and the Landskamp a fair
> and equal contest for all Scandinavian countries and a contest to take
> seriously. And who knows this rule might even make TF activate 5 stations.
>
> Looking forward to some serious responses
>
> 73/Sam     SM3PZG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> From: SM5AJV
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 10:01 AM
> To: Mats Strandberg
> Cc: SM5AJV ; toec at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TOEC] Val av lag till SAC 2012 National Team Contesting
>
> Tack för ett bra förslag!
>
> Jag föreslår följande deadlines för intresseanmälan.
>
>
> CW:  3/9
> SSB: 1/10
>
> Intresseanmälan kan skickas till mig via email.
>
> Finns det någon hugad, som kan tänka sig ingå i den informella
> kommittén? Någon i SSA styrelse + någon ytterligare?
>
> 73
> Ingemar SM5AJV
>
>
> > Hej Ingemar!
> >
> > Uttagningen borde enligt mitt menande gå till enligt följande:
> >
> > Gör reklam för den nya parallelltävligen och uppmana alla som önskar
> delta
> > i någon av de fyra klasserna (uppdelat på båda helgerna) anmäla sitt
> > intresse. Ange deadline för intresseanmälan.
> >
> > Skapa en liten informell kommitte som sedan tillsammans argumenterar och
> > röstar fram det lag som vi ska tävla med.
> >
> > Kriterier för urvalet bör baseras på tävlingsmässiga grunder och
> > målsättningen måste vara att vi BÅDE ska vinna landskampen och
> > lagtävligen.
> > Alltså, stationer med bäst föresättningar och mest motivation att vinna
> > för
> > SM väljs.
> >
> > Hur kan man avgöra detta?
> >
> > Kombination av:
> >
> > 1. Tidigare placering på 10 i skandinaviska topplistan senaste åren i SAC
> > 2. Stationsprestanda
> > 3. Operatörsskicklighet
> > 4. Geografisk placering (beror ju ganska mycket vilken typ av konditioner
> > vi får givetvis)
> >
> > Genom att tydligt förklara att detta är en alternativ tävling i
> > tävligenen,
> > kvarstår fortfarande den traditionella tävlingen som den viktigaste. I
> den
> > är ALLA resultat värdefulla och med den motiveringen bör man kunna både
> > köra en elitsatning i Teamtävlingen och en folkrörelse i den vanliga
> > Scandinavian Cup.
> >
> > 73 de LRR, Mats
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Den 10 augusti 2012 10:45 skrev SM5AJV <sm5ajv at qrq.se>:
> >
> >> Hej!
> >>
> >> Inför höstens SAC har vi, som annonserats tidigare, introducerat ett
> >> försök i "National Team Contesting". Reglerna för detta finns på
> >> http://sactest.net/blog/rules/national-team-contesting-trial-sac-2012/
> >>
> >> Hur lagen i respektive land väljs är upp till varje nationellt förbund.
> >>
> >> Ett lag består av 6 stationer:
> >>
> >>  2 Single Op Multi Band High Power
> >>  2 Single Op Multi Band Low Power
> >>  1 Single Op Multi Band Low Power Tribander/Single Element
> >>  1 Multi Op Single TX entrant
> >>
> >> För att kunna delta behöver man ha en uppkoppling till cqcontest.ru.
> >> Hur detta skall gå till i detalj, kommer SAC CC presentera senare.
> >> Men i princip är det:
> >>
> >> * Realtime scoring, d.v.s logprogrammet rapporterar summary sheet till
> >>   cqcontest.ru med jämna mellanrum. Se vidare http://cqcontest.ru
> >>   där instruktioner finns hur man gör i respektive loggprogram.
> >>
> >> * Realtime video/audio. På cqcontest.ru kan man också ansluta
> strömmande
> >>   video och ljud och "åskådaren" kan välja två stationer att följa på
> >> skärmen.
> >>
> >>
> >> Men, hur vill vi att uttagningen av Sveriges lag skall gå till?
> >> Fritt fram att tycka till här på reflektorn!
> >>
> >>
> >> 73
> >> Ingemar SM5AJV
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> TOEC at contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/toec
> >>
> >
>
>
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