[TOEC] SAC Landskamp contest is violating the basic fundamentals in all competition

Sun Aug 19 01:00:44 PDT 2012

Made a response to SM5AJV 15/8 but forgot CC to reflector, have been 
occupied with much more important things... like fly-fishing for salmon and 
trout. Here is the copy.

Many thanks for the response.

I think the driving force is the fun and thrill of contesting, not sending
in a handful of qsos to a Landskamp Cup. To increase the number of operators
you need to do the following,

1. Marketing effort of the sport in all Scandinavian countries.
2. Educational efforts from the national leagues.
3. Club activity to introduce new hams to the sport of contesting.
4. Tutorials on software, equipment, operation techniques.

Sending in a handful of Qs to the Cup comes way down on the list.

No I was not aware of the team contest. This looks like something in-between
from what I suggested. If you draw a line in the scoreboard of the 2 top
scores instead of the 5 top scores in each category you obtain the same
objective as the team trial with less effort. You would not have to choose
teams and stations you would automatically get the top scores to represent
the country.

The real time scores and real time video and audio sounds nice but I assume
contesters are to participate in the contest, not sit and watch other
contesters run a contest? This would affect the Cup result. If this has the
objective to reach new and young hams it would be better to stream live
video and audio from a large club with many young operators and a lot of
modern equipment.

With my suggestions of including only the 5 top scores for the Cup I think
LA would beat us and we would end up on third place. This would make LA
happy and maybe trigger OZ to try to do the same. The focus would shift from
beating OH to NOT to be beaten by LA and OZ witch I think would be worse for
many hams.

Yes the activity has gone up a lot and that is very positive but I don’t
think its because of the Cup. The RUDX has a much better statistics even
with SM hams and that contest has no Cup. However it has clear and fair
rules, a great website, professional staff and very fast publishing of
results and sending of awards.

I also feel 24h is way to long for many "normal" hams and this goes for all
contests. If you cant manage the full 24h you will not make a 100% effort
and just make a few hours of fun. My personal view is more contest should
have a 12h entry. Free time today is to valuable for people in the middle of
life with family, house and friends.

Still the basic fundamentals of competition must be obeyed, if not you end
up same as when you play with small children and all must be winners and
happy. Older children immediately notice when something is unfair and
protest, if rules don’t change they refuse to participate in the game and go
and do something else (like OZ hams).

73/Sam SM3PZG

-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- 
From: Mats Strandberg
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:11 AM
To: SM3PZG
Cc: TOEC
Subject: Re: [TOEC] SAC Landskamp contest is violating the basic 
fundamentals in all competition

Det blev så tyst på debatten hade jag tänkt att säga...  tryckfelsnisse var
framme :)

73 de Mats

2012/8/16 Mats Strandberg <sm6lrr at gmail.com>

> Hej Sam,
>
> Var bara litet nyfiken om Du hade några invändningar mot de svar som kom?
> Det blev s[ tyst p[ debbaten...  Om jag tolkade avslutningen korrekt
> önskade Du seriösa svar som bemötte ditt inlägg. Jag försökte leverera ett
> sådant, men du kanske inte bedömde det som seriöst nog? :)
>
> 73 de Mats RM2D
>
>  2012/8/14 SM3PZG <sm3pzg at lsg.se>
>
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> I feel that the Landskamp in the SAC contest is violating the basic
>> fundamentals in all competition and that is opponents should from start 
>> be
>> equal in strength to make the competition as fair as possible. This
>> fundamental fault just gives the contest a ridicules on unserious
>> impression
>> and something not to take seriously.
>>
>> In all individual sports great effort is taken to match opponents
>> according
>> to skills, experience and strength to make a fair match. Same in team
>> competitions. In competitions between nations every nation sends their
>> best
>> players and they are proud the represent their country and of course make
>> a
>> 100% effort and go the distance.
>>
>> With the Olympic games in mind we don’t send ALL active swimmers or ALL
>> active runners to the competition, we only send the ones that are
>> qualified
>> and that can make a honorable effort.  Same in the Finnkamp only first,
>> second and third place count for points.
>>
>> In Sweden all hams are encourage to make just a few qsos and send in the
>> log
>> just to beat the Finns. It doesn't matter that everyone knows we have 
>> many
>> more hams then OH not to mention OZ and LA. If we have 100 logs and the
>> Finns only 40 logs and the Danish send 20 logs and the Norwegians send 10
>> logs should we be proud to win over the Finns? Should we be proud to beat
>> OZ
>> and LA? Why are OZ and LA not mention in pre-contest discussion? How does
>> OZ
>> and LA feel about this Landskamp? It simply does not make sense and looks
>> ridicules.
>>
>> A simple solution to the problem would be easy, just DRAW a LINE in the
>> scoreboard. For example the SOAB category only the TOP 5 stations count 
>> in
>> the Landskamp. This would have 3 very big benefits. First the 
>> competitions
>> would be FAIR, second OZ and LA would be able to compete on the same 
>> terms
>> as OH and SM. Third this would open up for a qualifying competition 
>> within
>> each country to be one of the five stations to represent their nation and
>> would most likely make more stations go the limit and make a better
>> effort.
>> Of course the complete scoreboard should be publish but results only 
>> count
>> inside each nation.
>>
>> The only discussions the contest committee would have is to were to draw
>> the
>> lines in each category. The rule itself would be very easy to implement.
>>
>> So this is my suggestions on how to make the SAC and the Landskamp a fair
>> and equal contest for all Scandinavian countries and a contest to take
>> seriously. And who knows this rule might even make TF activate 5 
>> stations.
>>
>> Looking forward to some serious responses
>>
>> 73/Sam     SM3PZG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
>> From: SM5AJV
>> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 10:01 AM
>> To: Mats Strandberg
>> Cc: SM5AJV ; toec at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TOEC] Val av lag till SAC 2012 National Team Contesting
>>
>> Tack för ett bra förslag!
>>
>> Jag föreslår följande deadlines för intresseanmälan.
>>
>>
>> CW:  3/9
>> SSB: 1/10
>>
>> Intresseanmälan kan skickas till mig via email.
>>
>> Finns det någon hugad, som kan tänka sig ingå i den informella
>> kommittén? Någon i SSA styrelse + någon ytterligare?
>>
>> 73
>> Ingemar SM5AJV
>>
>>
>> > Hej Ingemar!
>> >
>> > Uttagningen borde enligt mitt menande gå till enligt följande:
>> >
>> > Gör reklam för den nya parallelltävligen och uppmana alla som önskar
>> delta
>> > i någon av de fyra klasserna (uppdelat på båda helgerna) anmäla sitt
>> > intresse. Ange deadline för intresseanmälan.
>> >
>> > Skapa en liten informell kommitte som sedan tillsammans argumenterar 
>> > och
>> > röstar fram det lag som vi ska tävla med.
>> >
>> > Kriterier för urvalet bör baseras på tävlingsmässiga grunder och
>> > målsättningen måste vara att vi BÅDE ska vinna landskampen och
>> > lagtävligen.
>> > Alltså, stationer med bäst föresättningar och mest motivation att vinna
>> > för
>> > SM väljs.
>> >
>> > Hur kan man avgöra detta?
>> >
>> > Kombination av:
>> >
>> > 1. Tidigare placering på 10 i skandinaviska topplistan senaste åren i
>> SAC
>> > 2. Stationsprestanda
>> > 3. Operatörsskicklighet
>> > 4. Geografisk placering (beror ju ganska mycket vilken typ av
>> konditioner
>> > vi får givetvis)
>> >
>> > Genom att tydligt förklara att detta är en alternativ tävling i
>> > tävligenen,
>> > kvarstår fortfarande den traditionella tävlingen som den viktigaste. I
>> den
>> > är ALLA resultat värdefulla och med den motiveringen bör man kunna både
>> > köra en elitsatning i Teamtävlingen och en folkrörelse i den vanliga
>> > Scandinavian Cup.
>> >
>> > 73 de LRR, Mats
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Den 10 augusti 2012 10:45 skrev SM5AJV <sm5ajv at qrq.se>:
>> >
>> >> Hej!
>> >>
>> >> Inför höstens SAC har vi, som annonserats tidigare, introducerat ett
>> >> försök i "National Team Contesting". Reglerna för detta finns på
>> >> http://sactest.net/blog/rules/national-team-contesting-trial-sac-2012/
>> >>
>> >> Hur lagen i respektive land väljs är upp till varje nationellt 
>> >> förbund.
>> >>
>> >> Ett lag består av 6 stationer:
>> >>
>> >>  2 Single Op Multi Band High Power
>> >>  2 Single Op Multi Band Low Power
>> >>  1 Single Op Multi Band Low Power Tribander/Single Element
>> >>  1 Multi Op Single TX entrant
>> >>
>> >> För att kunna delta behöver man ha en uppkoppling till cqcontest.ru.
>> >> Hur detta skall gå till i detalj, kommer SAC CC presentera senare.
>> >> Men i princip är det:
>> >>
>> >> * Realtime scoring, d.v.s logprogrammet rapporterar summary sheet till
>> >>   cqcontest.ru med jämna mellanrum. Se vidare http://cqcontest.ru
>> >>   där instruktioner finns hur man gör i respektive loggprogram.
>> >>
>> >> * Realtime video/audio. På cqcontest.ru kan man också ansluta
>> strömmande
>> >>   video och ljud och "åskådaren" kan välja två stationer att följa på
>> >> skärmen.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Men, hur vill vi att uttagningen av Sveriges lag skall gå till?
>> >> Fritt fram att tycka till här på reflektorn!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 73
>> >> Ingemar SM5AJV
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> TOEC at contesting.com
>> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/toec
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
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>
>
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