[TOEC] Fw: Vad är detta?

Mats Strandberg sm6lrr at gmail.com
Sun Feb 7 23:28:33 EST 2016 

Hello Göran,

Then all is fine...

I already have some dialogue with Jim about this.  If any outcome in either
direction, I will let you know.

73 and see you in upcoming contests or special event operations :)

RM2D, Mats


2016-02-08 5:05 GMT+03:00 Göran Ingemar Backman <sm5sic at gmail.com>:

> Dear Mats,
>
> Nice to hear from You. God fortsättning på det nya året.
>
> Yes, You are right; I might have misunderstood the settings
>
> "/S och /SA - vad är det för konstiga hemsnickrade tillägg?
>
> OH1BGG/SA blir ju SM, Sverige i alla loggprogram och SA0 som prefix.
>
> Inget som PTS ligger bakom i alla fall."
>
> which in my eyes looked disrespectful.
>
> However, if there would be any comments on the CTY files, maybe an e-mail
> to AD1C Jim would be a good idea. Is it not Jim, that is taking care of the
> updating of the CTY files? And I agree with You Mats, that we will show
> respect to other countries, when they use special call signs to commemorate
> historic events. And for a contester it is good in for instance WPX, when
> there are special prefixes, because that is a new multiplier, hihi.
>
>
> 73 de SM5SIC/OH1SIC Göran
>
>
>
>
> 2016-02-07 16:39 GMT+00:00 Mats Strandberg <sm6lrr at gmail.com>:
>
>> Göran,
>>
>> I think you maybe misunderstood some of us...
>>
>> The issue is not whether the special calls or dates are important or
>> not.  They for sure have all our respect and we like the activities as
>> such, but what we questioned was to include them in CTY files or not, as
>> those calls are not really active in the contests.
>>
>> There are many contesters that both share the interest for special calls,
>> special activitites and contest. But not always those activities are
>> related to contest itself - so the comment on CTY and contest programs are
>> for sure relevant in my view at least.
>>
>> So, just to clarify - a contester might be a person that only cares about
>> CTY files and contesting, but in many cases, a contester is like any other
>> human being, namely interested and curious in many diverse interests.
>>
>> So no contradiction in that, and for sure no disprespect towards Oman,
>> Finland and any other countries that choose to use special prefixes to
>> commemorate historic events.
>>
>> 73 de Mats RM2D
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-02-06 16:04 GMT+03:00 Göran Ingemar Backman <sm5sic at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Anybody that has been listening to the band during the last years, has
>>> been able to notice the increase of special call signs and different
>>> suffixes. For instance Oman and Bahrain had special call signs last years
>>> when they celebrated 45 years as independent countries. I operated
>>> A41OO/45, please see QRZ.com.
>>>
>>> The discussion above reflects what is really important for certain
>>> people.
>>>
>>> If You live in Oman, it was really important when the country turned 45
>>> years and therefore every ham in A4 could use the suffix /45 in their call
>>> sign during November 2015.
>>>
>>> If You know about Finland, You will understand how serious the situation
>>> was there 1939-1940, 1941-1944 and 1944-1945 (I am referring to the three
>>> wars that Finland had during WWII, where most Swedes do not even know that
>>> Finland was in three wars, not two). All families except for the immigrants
>>> have older relatives that either died, were wounded or got their minds
>>> seriously messed up during these wars. These are importants events in
>>> Finnish history because the freedom of the country had to be paid with a
>>> heavy toll. Therefore Indepence day in Finland on 6 Dec is a serious day,
>>> not a carneval. Therefore the veterans are remembered even after their
>>> death by a special sign on their tomb stones. Therefore using old military
>>> radio equipment on 40m and 80m during Independece day 6 Dec and
>>> during Field Marshal Mannerheim day 4 June  with the suffixes /SA and /S is
>>> something with meaning to the people of Finland.
>>>
>>> But if You are only interested in N1MM and CTY files, then the most
>>> important thing will be to get Your program to run without problems. Your
>>> whole world is focused on a contest software and its files. It makes sence
>>> to me, but I feel sorry for these poor soles, that are mentally deprived
>>> from the rest of the world. After all, there are more important things than
>>> computer programs and country files
>>>
>>>
>>> 73 de SM5SIC/OH1SIC Göran
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-02-05 13:23 GMT+00:00 Jan-Eric Rehn <jan-eric.rehn at telia.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jari,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the info.
>>>>
>>>> I also tried to add some calls into N1MM+ and DX4WIN. Both programs
>>>> updated with fresh CTY.dat today.
>>>>
>>>> N1MM+ ver.1.0.5458.0 (Contest log program):
>>>>
>>>> OH2BU/S = Unknown country
>>>> OH2BU/SA = Sweden
>>>> S/OH2BU = Unknown country
>>>> SA/OH2BU = Sweden
>>>>
>>>> OH1BGG/S = Unknown country
>>>> OH1BGG/SA = Sweden
>>>> S/OH1BGG = Unknown country
>>>> SA/OH1BGG = Sweden
>>>>
>>>> DX4WIN ver. 8.05 (Ordinary log program):
>>>>
>>>> OH2BU/S = Unknown country
>>>> OH2BU/SA = Sweden
>>>> S/OH2BU = Unknown country
>>>> SA/OH2BU = Sweden
>>>>
>>>> OH1BGG/S = Finland
>>>> OH1BGG/SA = Finland
>>>> S/OH1BGG = Unknown country
>>>> SA/OH1BGG = Sweden
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OH2BU was not amongst the calls in "Retired Callsigns/prefixes:", but
>>>> OH1BGG was. As the calls under that heading was erased from the new CTY.dat
>>>> the results in N1MM+ was as expected.
>>>>
>>>> The "long" version of CTY.dat is used in "ordinary" log programs, such
>>>> as DX4WIN and OH1BGG/SA is still there. Therefore the results in DX4WIN is
>>>> also as expected.
>>>>
>>>> But - I still think there are trouble with such additions to a
>>>> callsign, especially with the use of all the different log programs in the
>>>> computer. N1MM+ and DX4WIN are only two of all log programs and all the
>>>> others don't act the same way.
>>>>
>>>> That means that calls with the endings /QRP, /QRPP, /QRO, /MM, /AM, /P,
>>>> /M, /LH, /SA, /S, /60 etc ... needs to be in the "long" CTY.dat to be shown
>>>> as the correct country (if the log program isn't having some of those
>>>> endings approved).
>>>>
>>>> If more countries will do the same as Finland - how big will that
>>>> "long" CTY.dat be???
>>>>
>>>> Another thing:
>>>>
>>>> You wrote:
>>>> In fact, as you can use any number after your call, you can choose a
>>>> good number for eg. WPX-contest. I could use OH2BU/4 from my OH2 QTH and
>>>> have a bigger pile-up.
>>>>
>>>> My question is: Can you use OH2BU/0 and then claim you are on OH0???
>>>> Maybe you can in WPX contest, but what if you use OH2BU/0 in SAC? Then
>>>> you're definitely in/on OH0...
>>>>
>>>> In that case I think we need new rules in SAC.
>>>>
>>>> 73 de Jan, SM3CER
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- From: Jari Jussila
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2016 9:49 AM
>>>> To: Mats Strandberg
>>>> Cc: Rune Wande ; TOEC
>>>> Subject: Re: [TOEC] Fw: Vad är detta?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mats et al.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for good comments!
>>>>
>>>> You're right, I forgot the Canadian example.They have been protesting
>>>> about it for years.
>>>>
>>>> 1) Finland does not have (official) districts any more, so when you come
>>>> here with your CEPT-license, you have to use OH/RM2D or OH0/RM2D. You
>>>> can tell your QTH by adding the (old) district after your call as
>>>> OH/RM2D/2 or OH/RM2D/OH2. But, let say, if you use OH2/RM2D I don't
>>>> think nobody is to protest ....
>>>>
>>>> In fact, as you can use any number after your call, you can choose a
>>>> good number for eg. WPX-contest. I could use OH2BU/4 from my OH2 QTH and
>>>> have a bigger pile-up.
>>>>
>>>> 2) From authorities point of view, they are interesting only in the
>>>> letters an numbers before "/". Whatever comes after "/" is unofficial
>>>> and a amateur insider thing, being /QRP, /QRPP, /QRO, /MM, /AM, /P, /M,
>>>> /LH, /SA, /S, /60 etc ....
>>>>
>>>> 3) Yes .... when I write OH2BU/SA in N1MM+, it gives Sweden as my
>>>> country.
>>>>
>>>> Jari, OH2BU
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5.2.2016 10:20, Mats Strandberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I also had this Canadian example in mind because I worked VE7AHA/KH6
>>>>> on 40
>>>>> meters in 2013 or 2014. However, the same VE7AHA is now active from
>>>>> Hawaii
>>>>> as KH6/VE7AHA, so maybe they changed.
>>>>>
>>>>> See you both in a week :)
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 de Mats RM2D
>>>>>
>>>>> PS  I realized that my note about RA/SM5XYZ needs to be clarified a
>>>>> little.
>>>>> What I meant to say is that the same RA/SM5XYZ must be used for work
>>>>> in all
>>>>> Russia, and the consequence is that you can work from three different
>>>>> DXCC-countries with the same call...  Even 4 if the person gets permit
>>>>> for
>>>>> Franz Jozef Land (which I doubt) as this is an area that requires
>>>>> additional permit apart from the visa to visit.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Den 5 februari 2016 11:06 skrev Rune Wande<rune.wande at bahnhof.se>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Terve Jari!
>>>>>> As far as I know, Canadians working from the USA are to be using their
>>>>>> call like this example: VE8RCS/W6.
>>>>>> Also as far as I know I am not "allowed" to use W5/SM5COP as I have a
>>>>>> USA
>>>>>> call of my own! I am supposed
>>>>>> to be using my US call. But that has nothing to do with this
>>>>>> dicussion, Hi!
>>>>>> See you at the CCF meeting!
>>>>>> 73 de Rune SM5COP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Den 2016-02-05 kl. 01:48, skrev Jari Jussila:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mats, Janne, Ingemar etc ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My good friend Ben, OH6PA; gave you a good explanation on what these
>>>>>>> OH#xx/S and /SA stations are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But to have a broaded perpective, we should remember that nowadays
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> prefix of the country you visit, is not given after your own call but
>>>>>>> before it. Eg, when I come to Sweden, I'm SM/OH2BU etc.
>>>>>>> Or ... if you come to Finland, it will be OH/SM5AJV.  I guess it's
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> one country in the world which use the old system having it's prefix
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> the visiting call sign, That is Bermuda, still giving the call sign
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> OH2BU/VP9.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All contest programs should understand the new way of having the
>>>>>>> visiting
>>>>>>> countries prefix before the call sign and thus understanding, that
>>>>>>> whatever
>>>>>>> comes after the call sign after the "/" is not valid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And to go a bit further to the Finnish licensing  ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Finland it's not compulsory to use /M, /MM, /AM, or /P. You can
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> them if you like. In fact, in Finland I can have whatever I want
>>>>>>> after the
>>>>>>> "/" in the end of my call sign. I can use from my QTH here close to
>>>>>>> Helsinki OH2BU/SM or OH2BU/P5 or - as Ben wrote, OH2BU/60 if I some
>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>> have that anniversary. If it's wise to use OH2BU/P5 is another thing
>>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>> but it surely would be legal ..... Whick remains me, that when I
>>>>>>> back in
>>>>>>> early 1990's was on Malyj Vysotskij (R1MV), we had to use the call
>>>>>>> sign
>>>>>>> given by the Russian PTT - it was OH2BU/MVI written in the license.
>>>>>>> It was
>>>>>>> more that twenty G-stations, who said that we are pirates, because
>>>>>>> /M would
>>>>>>> be England ....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Finska "Amatörradioföreskrift" säger så här: "Förutom vad som
>>>>>>> fastställts
>>>>>>> om anropssignalen i 1–4 mom. får efter anropssignalen också fogas ett
>>>>>>> tilläggstecken eller en teckenserie, avskild med ett snedstreck."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jari, OH2BU
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4.2.2016 22:31, Jan-Eric Rehn wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hej Ben!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tack för svaret och förklaringen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oavsett om det är tillåtet att ha dessa tillägg i Finland, så blir
>>>>>>>> det
>>>>>>>> väldigt problematiskt för alla loggprogram. XXXXX/SA blir ju SM,
>>>>>>>> Sverige
>>>>>>>> som land och för prefixjägare blir det SA0 som prefix. Vad /S blir i
>>>>>>>> loggprogrammen vet jag inte - kanske okänt land. Strul blir det i
>>>>>>>> vilket
>>>>>>>> fall som helst. Och att det sedan förekommer en svensk signal med
>>>>>>>> samma
>>>>>>>> tillägg är ännu underligare (SM6AAL/S). I Sverige är ju inte ett
>>>>>>>> sådant
>>>>>>>> call tillåtet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vad jag känner till, så är det bara ett fåtal tillägg man kan göra
>>>>>>>> efter
>>>>>>>> ett call - /AM, /M, /MM och /P och kanske något/några till och
>>>>>>>> vilka de
>>>>>>>> flesta loggprogram förstår. T.ex. är ju inte /QRP ett godkänt
>>>>>>>> tillägg efter
>>>>>>>> ett call, även om många använder det. Jag tror det t.o.m. finns
>>>>>>>> någon
>>>>>>>> contest som har i sina regler, att dom som kör QRP ska använda /QRP
>>>>>>>> efter
>>>>>>>> callet. Inte bra. Jag hörde också i REF Contest flera franska
>>>>>>>> stationer som
>>>>>>>> använde nummerbeteckningarna på sina "departments" efter sina call,
>>>>>>>> t.ex.
>>>>>>>> F5XXX/24. Inte heller bra.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nåja, callen stod under rubriken "Retired Callsigns/prefixes:", så
>>>>>>>> det
>>>>>>>> innebär väl, att de fanns med i några tidigare cty.dat, men att de
>>>>>>>> nu tas
>>>>>>>> bort igen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 73 de Janne, SM3CER
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hej Janne
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jaha du undrar varför man har tillägg till suffix  förstår jag
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jo det är så att 2 gånger i året hålls en antikradio aktivitet
>>>>>>>> Den största och viktigaste går av stapeln vid Finlands
>>>>>>>> självständighetsdag
>>>>>>>> den 6 december
>>>>>>>> Den andra är Finlands armés flaggdag då det hålles många parader
>>>>>>>> Den infaller på Marsalk Mannerheims födelsedag den 4 Juni
>>>>>>>> Aktiviteten begränsad till 80m och 40m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Aktiviteten med radio består i att man aktiverar gamla militär
>>>>>>>> radiostationer
>>>>>>>> Som man restaurerat.
>>>>>>>> först kör man CW sedan AM
>>>>>>>> Nu lommer jag it tillägget i suffixet
>>>>>>>> Enligt telekonventionen får man göra tilläg till SUFFIXET tex om man
>>>>>>>> fyller
>>>>>>>> 50 år så sätt dit /50
>>>>>>>> Första två teckknen i en anrops signal hänvisar till i vilket land
>>>>>>>> stationen
>>>>>>>> befinner sig och det är obligatoriskt
>>>>>>>> Sen till det som förbryllar dig förstår jag (Jag har påpekat detta
>>>>>>>> till
>>>>>>>> traditionsradisterna att det finns frågor om detta)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /SA = Suomen Armeija (Finska Armén)
>>>>>>>> De stationer som har det tillägget använder stationer som har
>>>>>>>> använts i
>>>>>>>> WWII
>>>>>>>> icke enbart finsktillverkade
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /S = Sotilas = Soldat Det tillägget användes av stationer som
>>>>>>>> använts av
>>>>>>>> någon armé
>>>>>>>> ( Jag kör OI6SP/S med Ra200 alltså = /S Kör jag med 2W-Br/40 =/SA )
>>>>>>>> Stationer som har tillägg efter anrops signalen måste ha en armé
>>>>>>>> station
>>>>>>>> som
>>>>>>>> är minst 30 år gammal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alltså detta /SA har inget att göra med svenska PREFIXE SA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hälsa Rune
>>>>>>>> Och fins det flera frågor fins jag på Radiomässan i Eskilstuna 2
>>>>>>>> aprill
>>>>>>>> Får gärna förklaras i QTC angående Prefix och Suffix
>>>>>>>> Mailet med svar får du gärna sätt ut i TOEC spridningen
>>>>>>>> Aktiviteten är ingen tävling
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 73's de Ben OH6PA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan-Eric Rehn"<
>>>>>>>> jan-eric.rehn at telia.com>
>>>>>>>> To:<oh6pa at sral.fi>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 7:29 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Fw: [TOEC] Vad är detta?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hej Ben!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vet du vad detta är???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 73 de Janne, SM3CER
>>>>>>>>> SSA HF Contest Manager
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- From: Rune Wande
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 6:13 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: toec at contesting.com ; Jan-Eric rehn
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TOEC] Vad är detta?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> En som säkert vet är OH6PA.
>>>>>>>>> Han går nog att nå lätt och på svenska.
>>>>>>>>> 73 de Rune SM5COP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Den 2016-02-04 kl. 18:09, skrev Jan-Eric Rehn:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hej Mats!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nej, jag har inte skrivit till “dem”. Vilka dem menar du att jag
>>>>>>>>>> skulle
>>>>>>>>>> ha skrivit till?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 73 de Janne, SM3CER
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Mats Strandberg
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 5:59 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Jan-Eric Rehn
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: TOEC
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TOEC] Vad är detta?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Synnerligen märkligt...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 73 de Mats LRR
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> PS  Antar att du skrivit till dem?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Den 4 februari 2016 19:55 skrev Jan-Eric Rehn<
>>>>>>>>>> jan-eric.rehn at telia.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     Hej!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     CTY-2602 Country Files - 04 February 2016 har kommit idag.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Där hittar jag följande info:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     * OH1BGG/SA, OH1FJ/S, OH1SJ/S, OH1TX/SA, OH2BMB/SA, OH2BNX/SA,
>>>>>>>>>> OH2MEE/SA,
>>>>>>>>>>     OH2NAS/SA, OH2ZY/S, OH3FJQ/SA, OH3HB/S, OH3HHO/SA, OH3KRB/S,
>>>>>>>>>> OH3MY/S,
>>>>>>>>>> OH6FA/SA,
>>>>>>>>>>     OH6FSQ/S, OH6K/S, OH6QR/SA, OH9AR/S, OI3V/S, OI3V/SA, OI6SP/S
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> OI7AX/S
>>>>>>>>>>     in Finland, OH
>>>>>>>>>>     * SM6AAL/S in Sweden, SM
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     /S och /SA - vad är det för konstiga hemsnickrade tillägg?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     OH1BGG/SA blir ju SM, Sverige i alla loggprogram och SA0 som
>>>>>>>>>> prefix.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Inget som PTS ligger bakom i alla fall.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     73 de Janne, SM3CER
>>>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>     TOEC mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>     TOEC at contesting.com
>>>>>>>>>>     http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/toec
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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