Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 105, Issue 29

John john at all-the-facts.com
Tue Sep 27 18:40:50 PDT 2011 

I would like some advice of using my crank up US Tower pole as an antenna for 160. The pole is mounted on top of a concrete block that has 4 threaded iron rods on which the pole is set . the block is 5 feet deep. 

Does the concrete block insulate the pole from ground? 

From each of the 4 rods from the base I have a #8 copper wire to an 8 foot copper clad ground rods. There is also a 30 foot copper tubing that is sunk vertically into the ground.  I start getting water at  about 10 feet. 

So any ideas as of what to in this situation. Best 73 John NS5Z

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2011, at 2:00 PM, topband-request at contesting.com wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Effect of current max not at base of vertical. (Pete W2PM)
>   2. Re: Effect of current max not at base of vertical (Pete W2PM)
>   3. Re: 4W6A (ik4gme)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 20:12:26 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Pete W2PM <w2pm at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical.
> To: zr at jeremy.mv.com, olinger at bellsouth.net
> Cc: topband at contesting.com, herbs at vitelcom.net
> Message-ID: <8CE4AC145B2FC2D-1330-5E99F at webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Re signal improvements when over fresh water or swamp I've notice that many times on VHF or FM radio in the car and always simply suspected the effects of being in the clear without obstructions like buildings and trees. 
> 
> 
> Pete W2PM
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZR <zr at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: Guy Olinger K2AV <olinger at bellsouth.net>
> Cc: topband <topband at contesting.com>; herbs <herbs at vitelcom.net>
> Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:35 pm
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical.
> 
> 
> Well, Im on top of a pine and oak covered hill these days and RF ground 
> esistance tests say it aint so hot; about 250 Ohms for the Beverages. There is 
> bout 8-10" of compost and then very bony soil to an average of 18" before solid 
> ock. Now, the rock what locals call rotten granite as it just flakes off, is 
> ikely due to a high iron content which also affects well water around here.
> Maybe I should try drilling deep into the rock and pounding down a copper clad 
> od that is slightly larger diameter.
> I still remember driving around when much younger how suddenly the AM BCB would 
> ave much increased signal strengths for a short distance and there was nothing 
> isible in the area to account for it. Crossing over a large area of fresh water 
> r swamp always peaked signals even when the road wasnt elevated.
> Answers are needed.
> Carl
> M1H
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Guy Olinger K2AV 
> To: ZR 
> Cc: herbs at vitelcom.net ; topband at contesting.com 
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 3:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical.
> 
> EZNEC's "fresh water" selection shows a conductivity of .001 (very 
> nconductive). So it's talking about Great Lakes fresh water away from urban 
> olution.  Question would be how conductive the swamp water is.  I would 
> ersonally guess that if the area is heavily vegetated and slow draining, the 
> onductivity would be higher due to dissolved compounds produced by submerged 
> otting vegetation.  
> 
> Anybody care to go out in the middle of your local freshwater swamp and stick 
> hmmeter probes down there?  The conductivity may even be layered, since the 
> ater with dissolved materials will weigh more and the more fresh will lay on 
> op.  
> 
> If really stinky "fresh" water marsh is as conductive as that super-rich 
> idwest pastoral soil we keep hearing about, it jumps up to the best of 
> on-salt-water results.  How conductive is YOUR local fresh water swamp.  
> 
> 73, Guy
> 
> PS, this also applies to fairly acidic recently wet down pine straw forest 
> loors, like those down in flat land Carolina loblolly or oak forests. Would 
> ary incredibly depending on whether dry or not, or well drained with acid 
> eached out.
> 
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 11:29 AM, ZR <zr at jeremy.mv.com> wrote:
>    Ive doubted some of the claims about fresh water swamps based only on 
> ersonal experience. At a prior QTH I had them on 2 sides and extending to a 
> ile or more and the 160 vertical "appeared" to play better then expected.
>   All that rotting vegetation had to be good for something and it rarely froze 
> ore than a few inches in the winter.
>    Carl
>   KM1H
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ______________________________________________
> R RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 20:17:03 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Pete W2PM <w2pm at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical
> To: W9UCW at aol.com, topband at contesting.com
> Message-ID: <8CE4AC1EA776E65-1330-5EAE7 at webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I onvce did a observational study like this with W2JPW who lives 3 miles from my QTH.  We did the test on all bands from 160 to 2 meters using zero gain omni directional antennas. On 160, with 1500W he was S5.  On 80 S9 plus,  On 40 S4, and moderately strong on higher bands except for 17meters where he was very weak.  All the time we were in QSO on a 2 meter 1.5W portable in each of our basements with rubber antennas. Full quieting each way.  By the way on the weak bands he had no issues with QSO success on them so there wasnt anything inherently bad about his system.
> 
> 
> Pete W2PM
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: W9UCW <W9UCW at aol.com>
> To: topband <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:35 pm
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical
> 
> 
> This may or may not be significant to the  discussion. In the 1970's I was 
> sing a 120 foot insulated base vertical as my  main transmit antenna. I had 
> 2,000 feet of #12 copper radials from 90 to 200  feet in length buried 
> bout 3 inches in the ground surrounding the antenna. It  was located near 
> inooka, Illinois in a wooded rural area.
> 
> s an experiment, I asked several friends who  were located from one to 
> welve miles away to record my signal strength at  their location each day for 
> ne month at a specific power of 100 watts of  carrier. Then I had my tower 
> limbing buddy, Jack, W9YF (SK) put a resonator  tuned to 1850 on top of the 
> ertical. 
> 
> had to modify the base matching system. It had  been a shunt coil to 
> round. It now required a parallel resonant circuit from  the base of the tower 
> o ground with the coax from the rig tapped onto the  coil.
> 
> hen my friends reported the signal strength  they now recorded, it was 
> rom a half to a full "S" unit more than their  original readings. Now that's 
> ertainly not very scientific, but their comments,  assuming all groundwave  
> eadings, were sure interesting to  me.
> 
> 3, CU on TopBand, Barry,  W9UCW
> ______________________________________________
> R RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:57:12 +0200
> From: "ik4gme" <ik4gme at libero.it>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 4W6A
> To: <topband at contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <4396B1A15D704EBCA19080870EC6442E at ballardi7a1c95>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
> 
> ......and judging by the response, an excellent  showing was made on 160M.
> Thanks once again..
> Kev
> M0TNX
> Assistant QSL manager/web admin
> 
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity, I'd like to read lots of comments from the other 
> European topbanders .
> 
> 73 John  IK4GME 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> End of Topband Digest, Vol 105, Issue 29
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