Topband: Patience in ARRL 160 Contest -- copying weak ones

[Doug Renwick]

Thanks Herb,

That certainly removes the operator condition from the explanation.  It will
be interesting to discover why the transmissions tail off.  Is it
repeatable?  For example if the same station keeps sending their call
between your HB9? does it consistently tail off each time they transmit
between your transmissions?

Doug

-----Original Message-----

Then my digital recording (Adobe Audition) possesses a similar mental 
capacity?  No!  I edit out the prefix and create a loop after deleting 
the prefix from the recording.  There is a noticeable disappearance into 
the noise after stations, and I have check over 50 so far, have sent 
there call signs.  It is not a mental condition at all.  I don't know 
what causes the phenomenon and once thought that power amplifiers lost 
efficiency after a few characters were sent, especially with stations 
without rally stiff power supplies on their PA's losing a bit of a kick 
they seem to get when first sending their call .  it sometimes seems to 
me the longer they keep sending the weaker they get.  Most amps today 
use voltage double supplies and the voltage regulation has a swing of 
300 to 400 volts.  however, I don't see how that can make up for 3db or 
more of signal drop.

Also let me assure you that George AA7JV has some of the best trained 
and keenest ears in the business of weak signal low band reception.  So 
I am looking for other reasons.  The solution: when in doubt please send 
the missing information, first and repeat the whole call in conclusion 
when in doubt.


Thanks,

Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ



On 12/5/2012 1:45 PM, Doug Renwick wrote:
> George, IMO you have solved the problem ... mental.  Your last sentence
> describes the condition exactly ... your brain goes blank or slows as a
> defence mechanism from all the noise/signals on the band.
>
> Doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> After spending 12 nights-in-a-row straining to hear and
> assemble thousands of weak calls, I would cautiously agree
> with Herb: if the DX clearly has the prefix, just send the
> missing letters.
>
> Maybe it is mental, maybe something else, but time and
> again I heard clearly (almost loud) the caller's prefix
> and number, just to experience the rest kind of fizzle
> into something weak and incoherent ... This happened so
> many times that I was ready for it, focusing only on the
> suffix, and still many times I could not copy it, while
> the prefix came through (almost) loud and clear. It must
> be that you can "hear" what you know or expect, while it
> is much harder to hear and decode something random. But
> that does not explain the whole thing. How does one get
> the prefix so many times correctly when the suffix just
> fizzles into nothing. I have checked with the other
> operators on PT0S and they had similar experiences.
>
> Perhaps there is some hearing mechanism at work, similar
> to vision; where acuity diminishes with usage...
>
> 73,
>
> George
>
>
> On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 17:54:26 -0400
>    Herb Schoenbohm <herbs at vitelcom.net> wrote:
>> Doug,  So many times I just hear the prefix and the
>> suffix drops out or is covered by noise.  It maybe a
>> mental thing as I have no other explanation where the
>> prefix comes through time and time but the suffix is
>> lost.  Since I know what the correct suffix is, sending
>> only the missing information make so much sense and saves
>> valuable time.  In such cases sending only the missing
>> data is what I would recommend for stations struggling to
>> get in the log as the prefix is already confirmed to both
>> of the stations.  So many times DX-peditions will not get
>> my call correctly and butcher a portion of it...like
>> "KV4Z ur 5NN" to which I immediately reply "FZ...FZ...FZ
>> KV4FZ K"   This procedure works every time especially
>> layers deep in piles up.
>>
>> Thanks for your remarks,
>>
>>
>> Herb, KV4FZ
>>
>>
>> On 12/4/2012 9:51 AM, Doug Renwick wrote:
>>> When a cw station asks for a fill I send my COMPLETE
>>> callsign.  Why?
>>>
>>> a) My memory keyer or logging program has my full
>>> callsign, no partial
>>> callsign.  I don't use the hand keyer just in case I
>>> have 'dead' fingers and
>>> make a mistake.
>>>
>>> b) It allows the other station to focus on my signal
>>> when other stations are
>>> calling at the same time near or on my frequency.
>>>
>>> c) It makes sure that the correct suffix is added to the
>>> prefix.
>>>
>>> d) It confirms my prefix if part of it is copied
>>> incorrectly.
>>>
>>> Patience is  needed when ones signal is subject to 160m
>>> QSB.  Sri Herb, I
>>> fully disagree.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> I worked a whole bunch of Europeans in the 160 meter
>>> contest along with
>>> UA9's and even 4Z1UF who had a good signal. My pet peeve
>>> is that when I
>>> hear only a weaker stations prefix but miss the suffix
>>> and ask for a
>>> repeat and request for example "HB9 ?  AGN"  all I hear
>>> is the prefix
>>> before the suffix is in the noise.  The station knows i
>>> have the correct
>>> prefix and number but how do I get them just to send the
>>> missing portion
>>> which is crucial to completing the QSO?  Even if I send
>>> HB9??? they
>>> return with de HB9### and the process repeats.  If in
>>> such circumstances
>>> once the calling station realizes I have the correct
>>> prefix all they
>>> need do is send the two or three letters of the suffix
>>> several times.
>>> Resending the prefix is not helpful in high noise or qrm
>>> situation.  I
>>> have tried SFX? SFX? but many stations are confused by
>>> that and keep
>>> sending their whole call. So here is my advice in just
>>> difficult
>>> circumstance:
>>>
>>> Do *not* repeat your whole call if the other station has
>>> the correct
>>> prefix and all they need is the remaining portion.  I
>>> just wish more
>>> stations on TB would do this as it would enable them
>>> getting in the log
>>> correctly and save time.  Time length of an opening to
>>> some parts of the
>>> world is everything in a crowded contest.  Why waste it?
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Topband reflector - topband at contesting.com
>>
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>
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