Topband: raised radials

[Carl]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji at w8ji.com>
To: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
Cc: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials


>> Or the person on here who went from an extensive radial system to a full 
>> screen claimed a 5dB improvement but now denys the possibility. Its in 
>> the TB archives from 1998.
>
> Carl,
>
> Please try to stop that silly disappointing long-time practice of 
> re-writing what other people say just to start a fight.
>
> I ****NEVER**** said I didn't measure a 5 dB change, or that some system 
> changes can't produce a 5 dB (or even a 30 dB) change when someone does 
> something terribly wrong in a system.

** Some time spent in the archives could be an eye opener to many on here. 
Im far from looking for a fight as you claim, just get some things 
clarified.


What I am saying is:
>
> 1.) Your claim you felt you had a ~10 dB change, based on your feelings of 
> how much a signal must change busting a pileup, when you added some screen 
> to a system is pretty silly. It is a test at least days apart on sky wave 
> with no data reference at all. It is typical junk science of

** Thats about what Id expect from you, demeaning comments when you dont 
have a clue what I did. The radials only were for over a year of daily 
operating so I had a pretty decent feel for the bands variances. This was a 
decade before Topband came along. The screen went down one day and by sunset 
I was active again, didnt miss a beat. The group of friends I worked with on 
a private 222MHz repeater all commented on the improvement since I was 
regularly beating them in pileups and they had good vertical installations.


the worse kind.
> If your original ground system did not have severe issues, the imagined 
> "10 dB" would be impossible.

** You are very wrong since you remain hung up on only part of the picture.

>
> 2.)  Broadcast stations use a screen as a connection point and mechanical 
> convenience, NOT to improve signal or effiency.


** Wrong again since you conveniently leave out the rest of the reason.


 The screen allows people to
> walk near the tower base without falling over wires, and it allows 
> connecting boxes, fences, posts, and other things into the radials no 
> matter where they are located near the base. They also usually use stone 
> at the base, and weedkiller...so we can't assume everything they do is for 
> "signal reasons".

** Nope and that is a completely different install than what I am discussing 
where the close in base screen plus elevated radials is used as a necessity 
for mainly financial reasons.

>
> If you take some time to read FCC guidelines, the screen is actually 
> optional.

** Ive read it and you are changing the subject again


If you read Lewis, Brown, and Epstein, instead of misreading
> Topband archives,


** My reading suggests quite different.

you will see they ALSO said the screen does not when a
> adequate number and length of radials is present.
>
> Please stop the silly childish misrepresentations.
>
> 73 Tom

** Stop the demeaning and subject switching/slanting whenever you get into a 
jam Tom. This is not Eham or QTH, there are many educated readers on here 
that can see right thru it

Carl
KM1H.