Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"

Wed Aug 13 11:19:47 EDT 2014

There is a lot more to winning an all band DX contest besides a great 160M 
location.

Tim and Frank picked locations carefully for low noise, used the various 
tools to understand propagation and the angles needed for 10-160M under all 
sunspot conditions, assembled a hi tech and reliable station and then 
brought in top operators.

They are also far enough below the usual auroral disturbance zone that can 
make New England and NY a black hole during disturbed conditions.
Ive experienced it many times when the dividing line on 160 was only 25-30 
miles south of me and even coastal stations in the hole couldnt make it 
thru.

W1KM antennas are in a salt marsh on Cape Cod and has a killer signal on 
160, 80, etc. The station is mostly for contests in a low key, laid back, 
training mode and not the high dollar versions that go all out with winning 
as the main goal.

My first salt water experience was on Long Island NY in 57 when I had a 
TBS-50 and Gonset converter in a souped up 49 Ford and lived about 10 miles 
from the ocean. The band used was 10M and as I drove thru the salt marshes 
the weak DX started to get stronger and by the time I parked about a block 
from the ocean the band was full of loud EU and AF. Heading back home the 
signals fell off at the same rate.

One experience while in the USN was aboard a ship that regularly did fleet 
exercises off the coast of VA and NC. My old local station, WGBB 1240, with 
a single tower in those same salt marshes and running only 250W would be 
blasting thru in the middle of the day any time of the year. By mid to late 
afternoon it would slowly fade out.
Was that some sort of extended ground wave, skywave, or what?
The current 1000W coverage map shows the rather huge effect of the coastal 
location.
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WGBB&service=AM&status=L&hours=D

In the Eastern Atlantic and Med the 50KW US coastal stations would often be 
loud and clear above the din. Even WKBW 1520 in Buffalo with the antenna 
pretty much in polluted Lake Erie came thru well at times. Id patch the RBB 
into the crews quarters and mess hall so they could hear local news, sports, 
etc

Carl
KM1H

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hardy Landskov" <n7rt at cox.net>
To: "Yuri Blanarovich" <k3bu at optimum.net>; <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"

> Yuri,
> I don't think K3LR, W3LPL could afford that kind of property to begin with 
> plus they have to work and have families and all of that. It is nice to do 
> that kind of thing on DXPD's but I would not want to live there.
> My final 2 cents....I vote we move on.
> 73 N7RT
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Yuri Blanarovich" <k3bu at optimum.net>
> To: <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"
>
>
>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 08:14 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>>
>> >
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuri Blanarovich" To: Sent: Tuesday, 
>>> August 12, 2014 4:50 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, here comes the "guru" again. :-)
>>>
>>> Is that immature stuff really necessary?
>>>
>> Subject of effect of ground, salt water front was discussed, some 
>> experiences were mentioned, but you judge it "unnecessary" and 
>> "feelings". We have been there before: first you don't believe it, deny 
>> it, then when convinced that you were wrong, you go quiet for a while, 
>> and then you "discover" the stuff and post article on your web site, like 
>> it was your invention all along. I have been biting my pen, but sometimes 
>> stuff just slips out. Looks like nothing new. Maybe there is a help by 
>> bringing it up.
>> So, here we go again:
>>
>>>> Unnecessary debate? We are talking about experiences and RESULTS of 
>>>> comparing normal in land "ground" effect vs. salt water beach or 
>>>> marshes. We are commenting on the benefit of immediate proximity of 
>>>> salt water to antenna performance, especially on low angles.
>>>> K3BU and others found out that it is not "feeling," but S-meter 
>>>> readings in order of 10 - 20 dB (RX and TX!) in favor of salty beach. 
>>>> It is like driving inside into the amplifier
>>>
>>> Perhaps you can explain why VOA and others willingly gave up that 10-20 
>>> dB, and how K3LR and W3LPL do so well inland, when they pay a 10-20 dB 
>>> penalty for communications?
>>>
>>
>> Ask VOA engineers how they chose their locations. I see why WOO - RCA and 
>> AT&T engineers chose their site in Ocean Gate, NJ on some 240 acres of 
>> salty marshes, and how they dominated overseas comms.
>> K3LR and W3LPL knowingly chose inland sites, because they don't need 
>> extra dBs? Comparing results to which beach station? Maybe operators have 
>> something to do with it?
>> Using scores between comparable stations gives some indication. But the 
>> real test is the observation of signals in said locations. Simple test of 
>> driving around in the mobile demonstrates the effect. WRTC 2014 
>> disqualified few sites because they were too good, they did the tests and 
>> those too close for salty comfort were not used in order to keep things 
>> more equal (for the inland locations that were available).
>>
>>
>>> One would think if there was a 10-20 db penalty, it would show on 
>>> skimmers and that W2GD would be unbeatable being on the water. I'm sure 
>>> I'm missing something. What is it I am missing?
>>>
>> It is not penalty, it is advantage. It all depends how one takes 
>> advantage of the effect and how good operator(s) are. You are missing 
>> getting into the car, drive to Cape Hatteras and observe S-meter while 
>> driving close to, or away from the salt water or over the bridges. You 
>> are also overlooking experiences of experienced contesters commenting on 
>> the effect and calling it unnecessary debate and feelings.
>> It is not easy to find beachfront property suitable for station, but it 
>> is rewarding to get 10 - 20 dB on RX and TX for "free" if one can. I got 
>> convinced and have seen the results and still have few records, even if 
>> anecdotal from XJ3ZZ/1 St. Paul, from VE1ZZ, N2EE/4, TF4X, WOO site, etc. 
>> Others have described their enhancements too, so it is not fairy tale.
>>
>> Hope it helps.
>>
>> Yuri, K3BU.us
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Tom
>>>
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>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>> _________________
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