Topband: Radial Question

[Bill Stewart]

Charlie, I was surprised at how well my Inv L/c-poise works. It
is far from an ideal situation...amongst many tall pines, but
results have been very much worth the effort. I got some good info
off this list and got it tuned up to where the TS-440S did not
need a tuner to get a low SWR...and it receives ok too. I read about
how much work/$$ guys put into the radial systems and it seems that
after a point, the work just ain't worth the fraction of a db ya 
get. But if it makes one feel better, then keep on digging...hi. 

73 de Bill K4JYS            

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Cunningham" <charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com>
To: "Bill Stewart" <cwopr at embarqmail.com>, "Robert L Chortek" <Robert.Chortek at berliner.com>
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 5:52:50 PM
Subject: RE: Topband: Radial Question

Hi, Bill

Well, I have modeled a 160 inverted L with 4 elevated resonant radials, with
EXNEC, and that's about as good as it gets! Guys with grounded towers have
to dig and bury radials or run 'em on the ground but the broadcasters'
experience with elevated radials indicates the 4 is about as good as it gets
- adding more doesn't add much.  Having the resonant radials fanned over
less than 360 degrees can produce sone asymmetry in the azimuth pattern, but
mine with two at 90 degrees worked quite well in all directions! Generally,
if I could hear 'em I could work 'em. The KAZ receiving loops helped a LOT
on receive!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Stewart
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:25 PM
To: Robert L Chortek
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question

Hi Bob,
I can't add much in the way of technical reasons for adding
the radials vs a c-poise. However, I can say that my Inv. L, with
a four wire quarter wave c-poise has worked quite well...and 
with much less work than all the radials you are considering.
I use only 100 watts and have worked into the Carib. and the
recent K9W operation. I also have been using a HB QRP xmtr from
1924 and have worked from C6 up into VE2/VE3.  

I would wonder about the possibility of 'under-the-house' radials
putting rf into your house wiring, and if using your xmit antenna
for rcving, picking up trash from your in-house gadgets...tv, computer
etc, esp if you are running power. You may be able to get someone
to model the two systems and the results might help you make up
your mind. 

Good luck with what ever method you end up with...73 de Bill K4JYS (NC)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L Chortek" <Robert.Chortek at berliner.com>
To: topband at contesting.com
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 2:51:50 PM
Subject: Topband: Radial Question

Hello Fellow Topbanders -

We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a
tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot.

It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large
number of buried ground radials BUT, they  would only cover about 90 degrees
of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number
of radials in our crawl space under the house.

So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the
house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the
house?  I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock,
etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal
impact.

If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40  to 120 feet
long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials
10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)?   I'm
incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my
transmitted signal strength.

Thanks for any help!

73,

Bob/AA6VB

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