Topband: Anyone purchased the ARRL book on Short Antennas for160???

[Charlie Cunningham]

That's certainly true!

Charlie, K4OTV

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Guy
Olinger K2AV
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 11:59 PM
To: Joe Subich, W4TV
Cc: TopBand List
Subject: Re: Topband: Anyone purchased the ARRL book on Short Antennas
for160???

Oh, OK. That should have worked. And note who you're talking about. :>)

But have you heard of a ham that had 120 1/4 wave bare buried around his
130' insulated tower, and then switched to two raised radials with the 120
left in place.

Commercial BC is in the fix of having to maintain the field strength, even
when the radials start to get even mildly inefficient. They would be all
over having to raise power to compensate.  I doubt a typical ham would even
know anything was going wrong at the loss level that would instigate action
at a BC installation.

73, Guy


On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists at subich.com> wrote:

>
>  I have yet to hear about a ham who had 120 buried bare radials
>> underneath his two raised radials.
>>
>
> ON4UN's original 80 meter wire 4-square hug around his 160 meter
> tower came close to that description.  The 4 square had a single
> elevated radial for each 80 meter element but they were all over
> some 100+ radials for 160 meters - most at least 1/4 wave long.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
> On 1/21/2014 11:32 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Charlie Cunningham <
>> charlie-cunningham at nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>  There's been a lot of work done in the broadcast
>>> industry using elevated radials to replace deteriorated buried radial
>>> fields
>>> that shows that pretty clearly. It was published in some IEEE
>>> transactions
>>> some years ago.
>>>
>>>
>> Be careful not to extrapolate very specifically qualified broadcast
>> experience into ham radio. Originally FCC spec radials still make the
>> close
>> foreground earth appear VERY conductive, which is NOT an advantage one
>> will
>> have putting up two or four radials over plain old dirt, unless one is
>> talking about midwest USA 30 millisiemen super dirt.
>>
>> I have yet to hear about a ham who had 120 buried bare radials underneath
>> his two raised radials.  A ham is talking about two or four raised over
>> plain dirt. Two or four over ugly North Carolina 2 millisiemen will be
>> down, though one will need comparison RBN plots watching an entire 160
>> contest to see it. It's not so far down though that you won't work happy
>> DX
>> with it, but there is a power loss.
>>
>> 73, Guy.
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