Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 25
w9hak
w9hak at twc.com
Mon Jun 30 15:00:35 EDT 2014
Here is a link to a little something I built for
my 160 radials. Each spool holds 1000 feet of
stranded wire, mostly 1
#12 house wire. Each section, 63', has a quick
disconnect so it's very fast to deploy and wind up
when finished.
http://s101.photobucket.com/user/st6319/media/Amateur%20radio%20projects/finaldesign.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2
Smith
W9HAK
On 6/28/2014 11:00 AM,
topband-request at contesting.com wrote:
> Send Topband mailing list submissions to
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>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..."
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (KB8NTY)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:20:39 -0400
> From: "KB8NTY"<kb8nty at wowway.com>
> To:<topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
> Message-ID:<3E29DDB39CF9468C928AE36F1F374119 at pc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Always enjoy RF Ground Radial conversation!
>
> Regarding the solid over stranded wire...I have found that the stranded
> behaves much better when laying it down as it forms to the various contours
> of the earths surface, where as the solid seems to have a mind of its
> own!...The solid has been known to break at times with the repeated flexing
> where as the stranded goes along with the flow.
>
> Also the insulated has seemed to hold up better over the bare wire also,
> possibly being protected from the soils elements by its insulation.
>
> What's great about ground radials is they are so forgiving for the most
> part...In my 125+ radials installed with my Butternut HF9V, I have used a
> multitude of different wire types and most have seemed to do the job.
> I have stayed away from the chicken wire types and such as upon digging up
> after a few years they are bad news, and as one mentioned can actually add
> to generated noise& potential interference.
>
> I am in the middle of intense wire researching as, I am now sourcing from
> overseas suppliers going direct for deep discounted pricing to offer ground
> radials along with my RossRadio Ground Radial Lawn Staple Anchor Pins. My
> goal is to pass the savings on...in the spirit of amateur radio. Of-course
> when buying direct overseas I am required to purchase a very large quantity,
> so I have to get it right the first time!
>
> -73-
> Ross KB8NTY
>
> RossRadio
>
> RF Ground Radial Website (all about only ground radials)
> http://www.rossradio.net/
>
> Ground Radial Discussion Group: Please Visit& Join In!
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/groundradial/conversations/messages
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:<topband-request at contesting.com>
> To:<topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:00 PM
> Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 24
>
>
>> Send Topband mailing list submissions to
>> topband at contesting.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> topband-request at contesting.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> topband-owner at contesting.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> (Matthew King - KK4CPS)
>> 2. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
>> 3. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Grant Saviers)
>> 4. Re: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> (mstangelo at comcast.net)
>> 5. , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Jim Garland)
>> 6. Re: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> (Bill Wichers)
>> 7. Re: Beverage feedline (Bill Wichers)
>> 8. Re: Beverage feedline (k1zm--- via Topband)
>> 9. Re: FD in the 60's (GALE STEWARD via Topband)
>> 10. Re: Beverage feedline (Michael Tope)
>> 11. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Carl)
>> 12. Re: Beverage feedline (Carl)
>> 13. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (mstangelo at comcast.net)
>> 14. Re: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Carl)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:01:59 -0400
>> From: Matthew King - KK4CPS<KK4CPS at gmail.com>
>> To: herbs at vitelcom.net
>> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
>> 80/160M
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAKs+UsnScb=iL8MqPyxmk0FPJCDQ4JpeE5p6FaRG2h4FQ4EjYQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Wouldn't stranded wire be preferred for such a use? Maybe I'm missing
>> something, but it seems that solid wire would be more prone to breakage.
>>
>> Matt
>> KK4CPS
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Herb Schoenbohm<herbs at vitelcom.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wish we had a Lowes here in the VI but I will look and see if Home Depot
>>> has a solid wire equivalent. They have THHN is stranded but I am not sure
>>> about solid insulated #14 as i have not ever seen that.
>>>
>>> Herb, KV4FZ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2014 8:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>
>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Dave K8MN
>>>>
>>>> On 6/24/2014 19 46, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I found a great source for radial wire at home Depot where they have
>>>>> 100' rolls of 14-2 packaged for under $40. Two conductors are
>>>>> insulated
>>>>> and one of course is not after the easy job of striping them across a
>>>>> bench jig or simple having a second person hold a pocket knife while
>>>>> you
>>>>> pull the conductors apart you end up with 300 feet of higher quality
>>>>> ground radial material. 2 each 100 foot insulated radials due to the
>>>>> VF
>>>>> are very close to 1/4 wave consideration and the the shorter 100 foot
>>>>> bare doesn't hurt either. This of course brings up the issue of mixing
>>>>> bare and insulated wire in any ground system so I use the bare
>>>>> conductor
>>>>> for other 80 and 40 verticals. Yet the sum of the three wires is
>>>>> cheaper than buying them individually it seems.
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:46:41 -0700
>> From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"<richard at karlquist.com>
>> To: Dave Heil<k8mn at frontiernet.net>, topband at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> Message-ID:<53AC5C81.6070908 at karlquist.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 6/26/2014 5:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>> Also try:
>>
>> www.interstatewire.com
>>
>> Rick N6RK
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:13:20 -0700
>> From: Grant Saviers<grants2 at pacbell.net>
>> To: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"<richard at karlquist.com>, Dave Heil
>> <k8mn at frontiernet.net>, topband at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> Message-ID:<53AC62C0.5030906 at pacbell.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> One issue not mentioned for radials on rather than in the ground, is the
>> nylon outer sheath on THHN doesn't like UV, so after a year or two the
>> snake sheds its skin and makes a mess. PVC just gets dry and cracks off
>> the wire from UV, might take a couple more years for that to happen.
>> Polyethylene is the best choice for covering if it can be found at a
>> reasonable price, or stick with bare copper or my favorite, aluminum
>> electric fence wire. For $50 1/2 mile of 17ga on Amazon. That's 40 66'
>> radials. It is strong and if only down for the summer will last. Or
>> just use new every year and recycle last years. You can't measure the
>> gain change of conductivity of copper vs aluminum.
>>
>> Grant KZ1W
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2014 10:46 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>>> On 6/26/2014 5:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>> Also try:
>>>
>>> www.interstatewire.com
>>>
>>> Rick N6RK
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:37:41 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: mstangelo at comcast.net
>> To: KK4CPS at gmail.com
>> Cc: topband at contesting.com, herbs at vitelcom.net
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
>> 80/160M
>> Message-ID:
>> <79660497.19045035.1403807861794.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> I started using surplus stranded high temperature teflon coated wire for
>> my radial system because I got it at a good price. It is flexible and easy
>> to work with but I noticed that if the ends were not sealed of if there
>> were breaks in the insulation it would soak up water via capillary action.
>> I needed more wire to finish my 36 radial system so I decided to try 14
>> gauge THHN insulated wire from Lowes. It is not as flexible but I should
>> not have to worry about it absorbing water.
>>
>> Most of my radial system is in the wooded area of by property. I have some
>> radials on the grassy area of my yard that I move in the summer. I use the
>> solid wire for the permanent installation and the stranded wire for the
>> seasonal installation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike N2MS
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Matthew King - KK4CPS<KK4CPS at gmail.com>
>> To: herbs at vitelcom.net
>> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>> Sent: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 17:01:59 -0000 (UTC)
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
>> 80/160M
>>
>> Wouldn't stranded wire be preferred for such a use? Maybe I'm missing
>> something, but it seems that solid wire would be more prone to breakage.
>>
>> Matt
>> KK4CPS
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Herb Schoenbohm<herbs at vitelcom.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 14:54:25 -0600
>> From: "Jim Garland"<4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
>> To:<Topband at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Topband: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> Message-ID:<00d501cf9180$d1c7b000$75571000$@miamioh.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Here in sunny NM, with nothing resembling grass, I just laid my sixty 120
>> ft
>> radials on the top of the desert. It's stranded 14 AWG with a brown THHN
>> insulation that matches the dirt. I figure in a couple of years the
>> insulation will pretty much be gone, and then it will just be bare copper.
>> Ain't nobody going to be bothered by that except the coyotes. The antenna
>> is 750 ft from my station, and fed with (buried) 50 ohm 1/2 inch CATV
>> hardline.
>>
>> Don't know how Carl finds that cheap PTFE stranded wire. I wire all my
>> homebrew projects with it, and am always on the lookout, but never see any
>> at the local surplus places. Los Alamos National Labs is nearby but never
>> seems to have any. I'm guessing they must use something else to wire up
>> nuclear weapons.
>>
>> 73,
>> Jim W8ZR
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 21:24:15 +0000
>> From: Bill Wichers<billw at waveform.net>
>> To: "<herbs at vitelcom.net>"<herbs at vitelcom.net>
>> Cc: "topband at contesting.com"<topband at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
>> 80/160M
>> Message-ID:<255C2A20-78B3-42C6-BCB9-024E83A126B5 at waveform.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less
>> common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before. Supply houses should
>> definitely be able to get it.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:33 AM, "Herb Schoenbohm"<herbs at vitelcom.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wish we had a Lowes here in the VI but I will look and see if Home Depot
>>> has a solid wire equivalent. They have THHN is stranded but I am not sure
>>> about solid insulated #14 as i have not ever seen that.
>>>
>>> Herb, KV4FZ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2014 8:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Dave K8MN
>>>>
>>>> On 6/24/2014 19 46, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
>>>>> I found a great source for radial wire at home Depot where they have
>>>>> 100' rolls of 14-2 packaged for under $40. Two conductors are
>>>>> insulated
>>>>> and one of course is not after the easy job of striping them across a
>>>>> bench jig or simple having a second person hold a pocket knife while
>>>>> you
>>>>> pull the conductors apart you end up with 300 feet of higher quality
>>>>> ground radial material. 2 each 100 foot insulated radials due to the
>>>>> VF
>>>>> are very close to 1/4 wave consideration and the the shorter 100 foot
>>>>> bare doesn't hurt either. This of course brings up the issue of mixing
>>>>> bare and insulated wire in any ground system so I use the bare
>>>>> conductor
>>>>> for other 80 and 40 verticals. Yet the sum of the three wires is
>>>>> cheaper than buying them individually it seems.
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 21:27:57 +0000
>> From: Bill Wichers<billw at waveform.net>
>> To: Timo Korhonen<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>> Cc: "topband at contesting.com"<topband at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>> Message-ID:<18EEC82D-275C-4E48-ACAB-68213E98E367 at waveform.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> The copper clad steel center conductor won't make much difference in terms
>> of loss on 160m. It is an issue if you will be powering Anything through
>> the coax (like amps or antenna selection relays) since the dc resistance
>> is higher.
>>
>> If you need solid copper center conductor rg6 you can get that too - its
>> sold for satellite systems that run dc on the coax to power the LNB at the
>> dish. It will generally be more expensive. Solid copper center conductor
>> will be listed as type BC (bare copper) in the datasheets.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Timo Korhonen"<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>>
>>> Here is a link for technical data
>>>
>>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>>
>>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like 1500
>>> feet?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help
>>>
>>> 73, Timo OG9X
>>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 19:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: k1zm--- via Topband<topband at contesting.com>
>> To: billw at waveform.net, timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi
>> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>> Message-ID:<8D15FB05E6DDD5A-1CFC-18E27 at webmail-m226.sysops.aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> FWIW - Here at VY2ZM - I am running RG6 (standard stuff) out 3500 feet to
>> a distant RX antenna on the other side of my property.
>>
>>
>> I am also switching 12VDC down the line (using a BIAS Tee) - in order to
>> switch the hybrid coupler from NE to SW - All of this is on 160M - so I
>> think you will surely be OKAY with only 1500 feet of BELDEN RG6 at 160m.
>>
>>
>> 73 JEFF, VY2ZM
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Original Message ----
>> From: Bill Wichers<billw at waveform.net>
>> To: Timo Korhonen<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>> Cc: topband<topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Thu, Jun 26, 2014 9:28 pm
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>>
>>
>> The copper clad steel center conductor won't make much difference in terms
>> of
>> loss on 160m. It is an issue if you will be powering Anything through the
>> coax
>> (like amps or antenna selection relays) since the dc resistance is higher.
>>
>> If you need solid copper center conductor rg6 you can get that too - its
>> sold
>> for satellite systems that run dc on the coax to power the LNB at the
>> dish. It
>> will generally be more expensive. Solid copper center conductor will be
>> listed
>> as type BC (bare copper) in the datasheets.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Timo Korhonen"<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>>
>>> Here is a link for technical data
>>>
>>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>>
>>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like 1500
>>> feet?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help
>>>
>>> 73, Timo OG9X
>>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _________________
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:05:38 -0700
>> From: GALE STEWARD via Topband<topband at contesting.com>
>> To: TopBand<topband at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: FD in the 60's
>> Message-ID:
>> <1403831138.29108.YahooMailNeo at web121104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Interesting thread!
>>
>> My first FD was in 1963 as a newly minted General. The group had all wire
>> antennas set up top of Huntington Mt (PA). Most of the other guys were
>> pretty much fone ops so I got a crack at 20& 40 CW with a Collins S-line.
>> Thought I was in radio heaven! The S-line was about 1000% better than what
>> I had at home. No keyers, just a straight key and Vibroplex bug.
>>
>> I remember that 6M conditions were good. One of the ops had installed a 6M
>> halo (remember those?) up in a tree on this mountain. I remember them
>> working into KP4 with about 10W.
>>
>> Good memories!
>>
>>
>> 73, Stew K3ND (ex K3ZOL)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "wa8wzg at wa8wzg.net"<wa8wzg at wa8wzg.net>
>> To: TopBand<topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 11:27 AM
>> Subject: Topband: FD in the 60's
>>
>>
>> Hot Springs, Ar, circa 1967,, Heathkit? SB-301 and SB-401 combo, dipoles
>> all 5 bands,, Army surplus gen, 10kw diesel ,, on top of Red Mountain,,
>> ,call was club call at the time , WA5BRF,, Big Red Flower,,, 15 years old
>> and got my first taste of contesting and been hooked ever since,, !!?
>> Thanks to all for bringing back some good memories!!
>> Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?
>> _________________
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:52:32 -0700
>> From: Michael Tope<W4EF at dellroy.com>
>> To: topband at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>> Message-ID:<53ACCE60.5050403 at dellroy.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Timo,
>>
>> According to ARRL's TLW program, your RF insertion loss for 1500ft of
>> RG-6 cable should be around 7dB. This is based on Belden 8215 which uses
>> a solid dielectric which makes it more lossy than your 1189A which is a
>> foamed dielectric, but less lossy than 1189A because it uses a copper
>> shield whereas 1189A uses an aluminum shield. These two opposing factors
>> seems to balance out as TLW predicts about 10% greater loss for 8215
>> than does the loss vs frequency table on the 1189A data sheet, so if
>> anything 1500ft of 1189A at 1.8 MHz might be a bit better than the same
>> length of 8215.
>>
>> If you want to run DC thru this cable to power a switch or pre-amp, the
>> loop resistance (inner conductor + shield) for 1500ft will be around 49
>> ohms. For a 100mA load that will be ~5 volts of drop between the source
>> and load.
>>
>> FWIW, 1189A doesn't appear to be rated for outdoor use whereas 8215 is
>> rated for direct burial. OTOH, 8215 uses an all copper shield so its
>> probably very expensive compared to the aluminum shield cable (like
>> 1189A) used by the CATV industry.
>>
>> I buy 1000' rolls of Commscope F660BEF Gel Coated Direct Bury RG6 from
>> these guys for $48 US per roll (I think this is the same stuff
>> recommended by W8JI):
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CommScope-F660BEF-Direct-Burial-RG6-Cable-Flooded-Coaxial-Undeground-Gel-Coated-/160693197034?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item256a0f98ea#shpCntId
>>
>> It looks like they ship to Finland if the overseas shipping doesn't
>> raise the price too much (UPS shipping is $25 just to go a few miles
>> from Phat's warehouse to my door here in Los Angeles). Perhaps there is
>> a cableTV/satellite distributor closer to Finland with better terms.
>>
>> 73, Mike W4EF.............
>>
>> On 6/26/2014 8:12 AM, Timo Korhonen wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>>
>>> Here is a link for technical data
>>>
>>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>>
>>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like
>>> 1500 feet?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help
>>>
>>> 73, Timo OG9X
>>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:57:45 -0400
>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> To: "Grant Saviers"<grants2 at pacbell.net>,<topband at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> Message-ID:<1719A3EADD9644648AF0CE3598F53A3D at computer1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=response
>>
>> Around here that wire gets pretty well corroded after a few years just in
>> the air from acid rain and salt laden fog off the ocean 20-30 miles away.
>>
>> I wonder what that does to the conductivity? OTOH my yagi elements from a
>> different alloy are still rather shiny after 30-40 years.
>>
>> THHN for wire antennas seems to hold up the PVC layer 10-15 years then
>> becomes fodder for elevated radials.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>
>>
>>> One issue not mentioned for radials on rather than in the ground, is the
>>> nylon outer sheath on THHN doesn't like UV, so after a year or two the
>>> snake sheds its skin and makes a mess. PVC just gets dry and cracks off
>>> the wire from UV, might take a couple more years for that to happen.
>>> Polyethylene is the best choice for covering if it can be found at a
>>> reasonable price, or stick with bare copper or my favorite, aluminum
>>> electric fence wire. For $50 1/2 mile of 17ga on Amazon. That's 40 66'
>>> radials. It is strong and if only down for the summer will last. Or
>>> just use new every year and recycle last years. You can't measure the
>>> gain change of conductivity of copper vs aluminum.
>>>
>>> Grant KZ1W
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2014 10:46 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>>>> On 6/26/2014 5:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>> Also try:
>>>>
>>>> www.interstatewire.com
>>>>
>>>> Rick N6RK
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7753 - Release Date: 06/27/14
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:37:49 -0400
>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> To: "Bill Wichers"<billw at waveform.net>, "Timo Korhonen"
>> <timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>> Message-ID:<E54BD3403B3D4D41BA59306BE2C7ADA8 at computer1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> RG-6 with a CCS center conductor is all about the same as far as RF or DC
>> loss is concerned. Figure on .35dB/100' at 2MHz.
>>
>> When I used 750' of RG-6 to feed the RCS-4 Beverage switch 25 years ago I
>> had no problem with the switching. I also used a small preamp at times.
>>
>> That cable didnt last one winter before critters destroyed it and I ran
>> .412" CATV hardline which was already pretty much obsolete. That is still
>> in
>> service and yearly tests show no additional loss which is .13dB/100'.
>>
>> The 1/2" 75 Ohm CATV hardline comes in a hair less at .09dB/100'. I use
>> the
>> 3/4" for transmitting on HF since it was the most used during the network
>> construction and I was given huge amounts of partial to almost full reels
>> when the installation contractors left for Indiana for their next
>> job....real gypsies!
>>
>> I use 7/8 and 1" for VHF and up.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bill Wichers"<billw at waveform.net>
>> To: "Timo Korhonen"<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>> Cc:<topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 5:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>>
>>
>>> The copper clad steel center conductor won't make much difference in
>>> terms
>>> of loss on 160m. It is an issue if you will be powering Anything through
>>> the coax (like amps or antenna selection relays) since the dc resistance
>>> is higher.
>>>
>>> If you need solid copper center conductor rg6 you can get that too - its
>>> sold for satellite systems that run dc on the coax to power the LNB at
>>> the
>>> dish. It will generally be more expensive. Solid copper center conductor
>>> will be listed as type BC (bare copper) in the datasheets.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Timo Korhonen"<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>>>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>>>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>>>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>>>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a link for technical data
>>>>
>>>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>>>
>>>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>>>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like 1500
>>>> feet?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help
>>>>
>>>> 73, Timo OG9X
>>>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7753 - Release Date: 06/27/14
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:13:34 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: mstangelo at comcast.net
>> To: Carl<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> Cc: topband at contesting.com, Grant Saviers<grants2 at pacbell.net>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> Message-ID:
>> <1832929880.19769221.1403882014626.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> One option for outdoor use Polyethelene PE covered wire.
>>
>> One good source is Dog Fence Wire:
>>
>> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/14-Gauge-Heavy-Duty-Superior-Pro-Dog-Fence-Wire-Solid-for-Invisible-Fence-/400264279386?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d319c355a#ht_3626wt_1124>
>>
>> It is meant to be used outdoors but the price is higher than other
>> alternatives.
>>
>> Mike N2MS
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Carl<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> To: Grant Saviers<grants2 at pacbell.net>, topband at contesting.com
>> Sent: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:57:45 -0000 (UTC)
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>
>> Around here that wire gets pretty well corroded after a few years just in
>> the air from acid rain and salt laden fog off the ocean 20-30 miles away.
>>
>> I wonder what that does to the conductivity? OTOH my yagi elements from a
>> different alloy are still rather shiny after 30-40 years.
>>
>> THHN for wire antennas seems to hold up the PVC layer 10-15 years then
>> becomes fodder for elevated radials.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 11:16:44 -0400
>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> To: "Jim Garland"<4cx250b at miamioh.edu>,<Topband at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> Message-ID:<30FAC4C9CF43426DBE79523B71DB6665 at computer1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> This area still has a huge amount of electronics related industry. BAE and
>> Raytheon included.
>>
>> When a military contract has been shipped the left overs get scrapped
>> unlike
>> a small commercial or research outfit where nothing is wasted.
>>
>> We also have a fair amount of business failures which adds to the surplus
>> market.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Garland"<4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
>> To:<Topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 4:54 PM
>> Subject: Topband: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>
>>
>>> Here in sunny NM, with nothing resembling grass, I just laid my sixty 120
>>> ft
>>> radials on the top of the desert. It's stranded 14 AWG with a brown THHN
>>> insulation that matches the dirt. I figure in a couple of years the
>>> insulation will pretty much be gone, and then it will just be bare
>>> copper.
>>> Ain't nobody going to be bothered by that except the coyotes. The
>>> antenna
>>> is 750 ft from my station, and fed with (buried) 50 ohm 1/2 inch CATV
>>> hardline.
>>>
>>> Don't know how Carl finds that cheap PTFE stranded wire. I wire all my
>>> homebrew projects with it, and am always on the lookout, but never see
>>> any
>>> at the local surplus places. Los Alamos National Labs is nearby but never
>>> seems to have any. I'm guessing they must use something else to wire up
>>> nuclear weapons.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Jim W8ZR
>>>
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7753 - Release Date: 06/27/14
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Topband mailing list
>> Topband at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 24
>> ****************************************
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7744 - Release Date: 06/25/14
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Topband mailing list
> Topband at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 25
> ****************************************
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7759 - Release Date: 06/28/14
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