Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 25
Carl
km1h at jeremy.mv.com
Mon Jun 30 15:25:56 EDT 2014
Well, we both used a piece of rebar but I couldnt find a good tub at the
transfer station/town dump. I made mine from scrap angle iron and my trusty
Miller MIG welder.
Its survived outdoors now since about 1979 at 2 locations and looks its age
(-; Used to run Beverages and radials as well as coax, control lines, and
120 or 240V lines out into the woods......sometimes to get the 78 F250
plow/yard truck back to the corral......
Carl
KM1H
----- Original Message -----
From: "w9hak" <w9hak at twc.com>
To: <topband at contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 25
> Here is a link to a little something I built for my 160 radials. Each
> spool holds 1000 feet of stranded wire, mostly 1
> #12 house wire. Each section, 63', has a quick disconnect so it's very
> fast to deploy and wind up when finished.
>
> http://s101.photobucket.com/user/st6319/media/Amateur%20radio%20projects/finaldesign.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2
>
> Smith
> W9HAK
>
> On 6/28/2014 11:00 AM, topband-request at contesting.com wrote:
>> Send Topband mailing list submissions to
>> topband at contesting.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> topband-request at contesting.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> topband-owner at contesting.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (KB8NTY)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:20:39 -0400
>> From: "KB8NTY"<kb8nty at wowway.com>
>> To:<topband at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>> Message-ID:<3E29DDB39CF9468C928AE36F1F374119 at pc>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Always enjoy RF Ground Radial conversation!
>>
>> Regarding the solid over stranded wire...I have found that the stranded
>> behaves much better when laying it down as it forms to the various
>> contours
>> of the earths surface, where as the solid seems to have a mind of its
>> own!...The solid has been known to break at times with the repeated
>> flexing
>> where as the stranded goes along with the flow.
>>
>> Also the insulated has seemed to hold up better over the bare wire also,
>> possibly being protected from the soils elements by its insulation.
>>
>> What's great about ground radials is they are so forgiving for the most
>> part...In my 125+ radials installed with my Butternut HF9V, I have used a
>> multitude of different wire types and most have seemed to do the job.
>> I have stayed away from the chicken wire types and such as upon digging
>> up
>> after a few years they are bad news, and as one mentioned can actually
>> add
>> to generated noise& potential interference.
>>
>> I am in the middle of intense wire researching as, I am now sourcing from
>> overseas suppliers going direct for deep discounted pricing to offer
>> ground
>> radials along with my RossRadio Ground Radial Lawn Staple Anchor Pins. My
>> goal is to pass the savings on...in the spirit of amateur radio.
>> Of-course
>> when buying direct overseas I am required to purchase a very large
>> quantity,
>> so I have to get it right the first time!
>>
>> -73-
>> Ross KB8NTY
>>
>> RossRadio
>>
>> RF Ground Radial Website (all about only ground radials)
>> http://www.rossradio.net/
>>
>> Ground Radial Discussion Group: Please Visit& Join In!
>> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/groundradial/conversations/messages
>>
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:<topband-request at contesting.com>
>> To:<topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:00 PM
>> Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 24
>>
>>
>>> Send Topband mailing list submissions to
>>> topband at contesting.com
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> topband-request at contesting.com
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> topband-owner at contesting.com
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>> (Matthew King - KK4CPS)
>>> 2. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
>>> 3. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Grant Saviers)
>>> 4. Re: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>> (mstangelo at comcast.net)
>>> 5. , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Jim Garland)
>>> 6. Re: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>> (Bill Wichers)
>>> 7. Re: Beverage feedline (Bill Wichers)
>>> 8. Re: Beverage feedline (k1zm--- via Topband)
>>> 9. Re: FD in the 60's (GALE STEWARD via Topband)
>>> 10. Re: Beverage feedline (Michael Tope)
>>> 11. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Carl)
>>> 12. Re: Beverage feedline (Carl)
>>> 13. Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (mstangelo at comcast.net)
>>> 14. Re: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M (Carl)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:01:59 -0400
>>> From: Matthew King - KK4CPS<KK4CPS at gmail.com>
>>> To: herbs at vitelcom.net
>>> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
>>> 80/160M
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <CAKs+UsnScb=iL8MqPyxmk0FPJCDQ4JpeE5p6FaRG2h4FQ4EjYQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> Wouldn't stranded wire be preferred for such a use? Maybe I'm missing
>>> something, but it seems that solid wire would be more prone to breakage.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>> KK4CPS
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Herb Schoenbohm<herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wish we had a Lowes here in the VI but I will look and see if Home
>>>> Depot
>>>> has a solid wire equivalent. They have THHN is stranded but I am not
>>>> sure
>>>> about solid insulated #14 as i have not ever seen that.
>>>>
>>>> Herb, KV4FZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2014 8:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave K8MN
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/24/2014 19 46, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I found a great source for radial wire at home Depot where they have
>>>>>> 100' rolls of 14-2 packaged for under $40. Two conductors are
>>>>>> insulated
>>>>>> and one of course is not after the easy job of striping them across a
>>>>>> bench jig or simple having a second person hold a pocket knife while
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> pull the conductors apart you end up with 300 feet of higher quality
>>>>>> ground radial material. 2 each 100 foot insulated radials due to the
>>>>>> VF
>>>>>> are very close to 1/4 wave consideration and the the shorter 100 foot
>>>>>> bare doesn't hurt either. This of course brings up the issue of
>>>>>> mixing
>>>>>> bare and insulated wire in any ground system so I use the bare
>>>>>> conductor
>>>>>> for other 80 and 40 verticals. Yet the sum of the three wires is
>>>>>> cheaper than buying them individually it seems.
>>>>>>
>>>>> _________________
>>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:46:41 -0700
>>> From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"<richard at karlquist.com>
>>> To: Dave Heil<k8mn at frontiernet.net>, topband at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>> Message-ID:<53AC5C81.6070908 at karlquist.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2014 5:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>> Also try:
>>>
>>> www.interstatewire.com
>>>
>>> Rick N6RK
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:13:20 -0700
>>> From: Grant Saviers<grants2 at pacbell.net>
>>> To: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"<richard at karlquist.com>, Dave Heil
>>> <k8mn at frontiernet.net>, topband at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>> Message-ID:<53AC62C0.5030906 at pacbell.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> One issue not mentioned for radials on rather than in the ground, is the
>>> nylon outer sheath on THHN doesn't like UV, so after a year or two the
>>> snake sheds its skin and makes a mess. PVC just gets dry and cracks off
>>> the wire from UV, might take a couple more years for that to happen.
>>> Polyethylene is the best choice for covering if it can be found at a
>>> reasonable price, or stick with bare copper or my favorite, aluminum
>>> electric fence wire. For $50 1/2 mile of 17ga on Amazon. That's 40 66'
>>> radials. It is strong and if only down for the summer will last. Or
>>> just use new every year and recycle last years. You can't measure the
>>> gain change of conductivity of copper vs aluminum.
>>>
>>> Grant KZ1W
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2014 10:46 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>>>> On 6/26/2014 5:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>> Also try:
>>>>
>>>> www.interstatewire.com
>>>>
>>>> Rick N6RK
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:37:41 +0000 (UTC)
>>> From: mstangelo at comcast.net
>>> To: KK4CPS at gmail.com
>>> Cc: topband at contesting.com, herbs at vitelcom.net
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
>>> 80/160M
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <79660497.19045035.1403807861794.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>> I started using surplus stranded high temperature teflon coated wire for
>>> my radial system because I got it at a good price. It is flexible and
>>> easy
>>> to work with but I noticed that if the ends were not sealed of if there
>>> were breaks in the insulation it would soak up water via capillary
>>> action.
>>> I needed more wire to finish my 36 radial system so I decided to try 14
>>> gauge THHN insulated wire from Lowes. It is not as flexible but I should
>>> not have to worry about it absorbing water.
>>>
>>> Most of my radial system is in the wooded area of by property. I have
>>> some
>>> radials on the grassy area of my yard that I move in the summer. I use
>>> the
>>> solid wire for the permanent installation and the stranded wire for the
>>> seasonal installation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike N2MS
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Matthew King - KK4CPS<KK4CPS at gmail.com>
>>> To: herbs at vitelcom.net
>>> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>>> Sent: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 17:01:59 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
>>> 80/160M
>>>
>>> Wouldn't stranded wire be preferred for such a use? Maybe I'm missing
>>> something, but it seems that solid wire would be more prone to breakage.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>> KK4CPS
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Herb Schoenbohm<herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 14:54:25 -0600
>>> From: "Jim Garland"<4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
>>> To:<Topband at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Topband: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>> Message-ID:<00d501cf9180$d1c7b000$75571000$@miamioh.edu>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Here in sunny NM, with nothing resembling grass, I just laid my sixty
>>> 120
>>> ft
>>> radials on the top of the desert. It's stranded 14 AWG with a brown THHN
>>> insulation that matches the dirt. I figure in a couple of years the
>>> insulation will pretty much be gone, and then it will just be bare
>>> copper.
>>> Ain't nobody going to be bothered by that except the coyotes. The
>>> antenna
>>> is 750 ft from my station, and fed with (buried) 50 ohm 1/2 inch CATV
>>> hardline.
>>>
>>> Don't know how Carl finds that cheap PTFE stranded wire. I wire all my
>>> homebrew projects with it, and am always on the lookout, but never see
>>> any
>>> at the local surplus places. Los Alamos National Labs is nearby but
>>> never
>>> seems to have any. I'm guessing they must use something else to wire up
>>> nuclear weapons.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Jim W8ZR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 21:24:15 +0000
>>> From: Bill Wichers<billw at waveform.net>
>>> To: "<herbs at vitelcom.net>"<herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> Cc: "topband at contesting.com"<topband at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Spam:************, Re: Deployable radials for
>>> 80/160M
>>> Message-ID:<255C2A20-78B3-42C6-BCB9-024E83A126B5 at waveform.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> You can get solid thhn. Some codes even require it, but it is much less
>>> common. I've seen Home Depot stock it before. Supply houses should
>>> definitely be able to get it.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:33 AM, "Herb Schoenbohm"<herbs at vitelcom.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wish we had a Lowes here in the VI but I will look and see if Home
>>>> Depot
>>>> has a solid wire equivalent. They have THHN is stranded but I am not
>>>> sure
>>>> about solid insulated #14 as i have not ever seen that.
>>>>
>>>> Herb, KV4FZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2014 8:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools of
>>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave K8MN
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/24/2014 19 46, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
>>>>>> I found a great source for radial wire at home Depot where they have
>>>>>> 100' rolls of 14-2 packaged for under $40. Two conductors are
>>>>>> insulated
>>>>>> and one of course is not after the easy job of striping them across a
>>>>>> bench jig or simple having a second person hold a pocket knife while
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> pull the conductors apart you end up with 300 feet of higher quality
>>>>>> ground radial material. 2 each 100 foot insulated radials due to the
>>>>>> VF
>>>>>> are very close to 1/4 wave consideration and the the shorter 100 foot
>>>>>> bare doesn't hurt either. This of course brings up the issue of
>>>>>> mixing
>>>>>> bare and insulated wire in any ground system so I use the bare
>>>>>> conductor
>>>>>> for other 80 and 40 verticals. Yet the sum of the three wires is
>>>>>> cheaper than buying them individually it seems.
>>>>> _________________
>>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 21:27:57 +0000
>>> From: Bill Wichers<billw at waveform.net>
>>> To: Timo Korhonen<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>>> Cc: "topband at contesting.com"<topband at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>>> Message-ID:<18EEC82D-275C-4E48-ACAB-68213E98E367 at waveform.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> The copper clad steel center conductor won't make much difference in
>>> terms
>>> of loss on 160m. It is an issue if you will be powering Anything through
>>> the coax (like amps or antenna selection relays) since the dc resistance
>>> is higher.
>>>
>>> If you need solid copper center conductor rg6 you can get that too - its
>>> sold for satellite systems that run dc on the coax to power the LNB at
>>> the
>>> dish. It will generally be more expensive. Solid copper center conductor
>>> will be listed as type BC (bare copper) in the datasheets.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Timo Korhonen"<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>>>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>>>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>>>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>>>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a link for technical data
>>>>
>>>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>>>
>>>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>>>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like 1500
>>>> feet?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help
>>>>
>>>> 73, Timo OG9X
>>>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 19:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
>>> From: k1zm--- via Topband<topband at contesting.com>
>>> To: billw at waveform.net, timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi
>>> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>>> Message-ID:<8D15FB05E6DDD5A-1CFC-18E27 at webmail-m226.sysops.aol.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> FWIW - Here at VY2ZM - I am running RG6 (standard stuff) out 3500 feet
>>> to
>>> a distant RX antenna on the other side of my property.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am also switching 12VDC down the line (using a BIAS Tee) - in order to
>>> switch the hybrid coupler from NE to SW - All of this is on 160M - so I
>>> think you will surely be OKAY with only 1500 feet of BELDEN RG6 at 160m.
>>>
>>>
>>> 73 JEFF, VY2ZM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Original Message ----
>>> From: Bill Wichers<billw at waveform.net>
>>> To: Timo Korhonen<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>>> Cc: topband<topband at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Thu, Jun 26, 2014 9:28 pm
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>>>
>>>
>>> The copper clad steel center conductor won't make much difference in
>>> terms
>>> of
>>> loss on 160m. It is an issue if you will be powering Anything through
>>> the
>>> coax
>>> (like amps or antenna selection relays) since the dc resistance is
>>> higher.
>>>
>>> If you need solid copper center conductor rg6 you can get that too - its
>>> sold
>>> for satellite systems that run dc on the coax to power the LNB at the
>>> dish. It
>>> will generally be more expensive. Solid copper center conductor will be
>>> listed
>>> as type BC (bare copper) in the datasheets.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Timo Korhonen"<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>>>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>>>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>>>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>>>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a link for technical data
>>>>
>>>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>>>
>>>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>>>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like 1500
>>>> feet?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help
>>>>
>>>> 73, Timo OG9X
>>>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>> _________________
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 9
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:05:38 -0700
>>> From: GALE STEWARD via Topband<topband at contesting.com>
>>> To: TopBand<topband at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: FD in the 60's
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <1403831138.29108.YahooMailNeo at web121104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>
>>> Interesting thread!
>>>
>>> My first FD was in 1963 as a newly minted General. The group had all
>>> wire
>>> antennas set up top of Huntington Mt (PA). Most of the other guys were
>>> pretty much fone ops so I got a crack at 20& 40 CW with a Collins
>>> S-line.
>>> Thought I was in radio heaven! The S-line was about 1000% better than
>>> what
>>> I had at home. No keyers, just a straight key and Vibroplex bug.
>>>
>>> I remember that 6M conditions were good. One of the ops had installed a
>>> 6M
>>> halo (remember those?) up in a tree on this mountain. I remember them
>>> working into KP4 with about 10W.
>>>
>>> Good memories!
>>>
>>>
>>> 73, Stew K3ND (ex K3ZOL)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "wa8wzg at wa8wzg.net"<wa8wzg at wa8wzg.net>
>>> To: TopBand<topband at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 11:27 AM
>>> Subject: Topband: FD in the 60's
>>>
>>>
>>> Hot Springs, Ar, circa 1967,, Heathkit? SB-301 and SB-401 combo, dipoles
>>> all 5 bands,, Army surplus gen, 10kw diesel ,, on top of Red Mountain,,
>>> ,call was club call at the time , WA5BRF,, Big Red Flower,,, 15 years
>>> old
>>> and got my first taste of contesting and been hooked ever since,, !!?
>>> Thanks to all for bringing back some good memories!!
>>> Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?
>>> _________________
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 10
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:52:32 -0700
>>> From: Michael Tope<W4EF at dellroy.com>
>>> To: topband at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>>> Message-ID:<53ACCE60.5050403 at dellroy.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Timo,
>>>
>>> According to ARRL's TLW program, your RF insertion loss for 1500ft of
>>> RG-6 cable should be around 7dB. This is based on Belden 8215 which uses
>>> a solid dielectric which makes it more lossy than your 1189A which is a
>>> foamed dielectric, but less lossy than 1189A because it uses a copper
>>> shield whereas 1189A uses an aluminum shield. These two opposing factors
>>> seems to balance out as TLW predicts about 10% greater loss for 8215
>>> than does the loss vs frequency table on the 1189A data sheet, so if
>>> anything 1500ft of 1189A at 1.8 MHz might be a bit better than the same
>>> length of 8215.
>>>
>>> If you want to run DC thru this cable to power a switch or pre-amp, the
>>> loop resistance (inner conductor + shield) for 1500ft will be around 49
>>> ohms. For a 100mA load that will be ~5 volts of drop between the source
>>> and load.
>>>
>>> FWIW, 1189A doesn't appear to be rated for outdoor use whereas 8215 is
>>> rated for direct burial. OTOH, 8215 uses an all copper shield so its
>>> probably very expensive compared to the aluminum shield cable (like
>>> 1189A) used by the CATV industry.
>>>
>>> I buy 1000' rolls of Commscope F660BEF Gel Coated Direct Bury RG6 from
>>> these guys for $48 US per roll (I think this is the same stuff
>>> recommended by W8JI):
>>>
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CommScope-F660BEF-Direct-Burial-RG6-Cable-Flooded-Coaxial-Undeground-Gel-Coated-/160693197034?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item256a0f98ea#shpCntId
>>>
>>> It looks like they ship to Finland if the overseas shipping doesn't
>>> raise the price too much (UPS shipping is $25 just to go a few miles
>>> from Phat's warehouse to my door here in Los Angeles). Perhaps there is
>>> a cableTV/satellite distributor closer to Finland with better terms.
>>>
>>> 73, Mike W4EF.............
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2014 8:12 AM, Timo Korhonen wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>>>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>>>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>>>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>>>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a link for technical data
>>>>
>>>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>>>
>>>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>>>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like
>>>> 1500 feet?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help
>>>>
>>>> 73, Timo OG9X
>>>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 11
>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:57:45 -0400
>>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> To: "Grant Saviers"<grants2 at pacbell.net>,<topband at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>> Message-ID:<1719A3EADD9644648AF0CE3598F53A3D at computer1>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=response
>>>
>>> Around here that wire gets pretty well corroded after a few years just
>>> in
>>> the air from acid rain and salt laden fog off the ocean 20-30 miles
>>> away.
>>>
>>> I wonder what that does to the conductivity? OTOH my yagi elements from
>>> a
>>> different alloy are still rather shiny after 30-40 years.
>>>
>>> THHN for wire antennas seems to hold up the PVC layer 10-15 years then
>>> becomes fodder for elevated radials.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> KM1H
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>>
>>>
>>>> One issue not mentioned for radials on rather than in the ground, is
>>>> the
>>>> nylon outer sheath on THHN doesn't like UV, so after a year or two the
>>>> snake sheds its skin and makes a mess. PVC just gets dry and cracks
>>>> off
>>>> the wire from UV, might take a couple more years for that to happen.
>>>> Polyethylene is the best choice for covering if it can be found at a
>>>> reasonable price, or stick with bare copper or my favorite, aluminum
>>>> electric fence wire. For $50 1/2 mile of 17ga on Amazon. That's 40 66'
>>>> radials. It is strong and if only down for the summer will last. Or
>>>> just use new every year and recycle last years. You can't measure the
>>>> gain change of conductivity of copper vs aluminum.
>>>>
>>>> Grant KZ1W
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2014 10:46 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>>>>> On 6/26/2014 5:17 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>>>>>> That seems a little too much work when Lowe's sells 500 foot spools
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> insulated #14 for $45.
>>>>> Also try:
>>>>>
>>>>> www.interstatewire.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick N6RK
>>>>> _________________
>>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7753 - Release Date:
>>>> 06/27/14
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 12
>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:37:49 -0400
>>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> To: "Bill Wichers"<billw at waveform.net>, "Timo Korhonen"
>>> <timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>>> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>>> Message-ID:<E54BD3403B3D4D41BA59306BE2C7ADA8 at computer1>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>> RG-6 with a CCS center conductor is all about the same as far as RF or
>>> DC
>>> loss is concerned. Figure on .35dB/100' at 2MHz.
>>>
>>> When I used 750' of RG-6 to feed the RCS-4 Beverage switch 25 years ago
>>> I
>>> had no problem with the switching. I also used a small preamp at times.
>>>
>>> That cable didnt last one winter before critters destroyed it and I ran
>>> .412" CATV hardline which was already pretty much obsolete. That is
>>> still
>>> in
>>> service and yearly tests show no additional loss which is .13dB/100'.
>>>
>>> The 1/2" 75 Ohm CATV hardline comes in a hair less at .09dB/100'. I use
>>> the
>>> 3/4" for transmitting on HF since it was the most used during the
>>> network
>>> construction and I was given huge amounts of partial to almost full
>>> reels
>>> when the installation contractors left for Indiana for their next
>>> job....real gypsies!
>>>
>>> I use 7/8 and 1" for VHF and up.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> KM1H
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bill Wichers"<billw at waveform.net>
>>> To: "Timo Korhonen"<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>>> Cc:<topband at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 5:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage feedline
>>>
>>>
>>>> The copper clad steel center conductor won't make much difference in
>>>> terms
>>>> of loss on 160m. It is an issue if you will be powering Anything
>>>> through
>>>> the coax (like amps or antenna selection relays) since the dc
>>>> resistance
>>>> is higher.
>>>>
>>>> If you need solid copper center conductor rg6 you can get that too -
>>>> its
>>>> sold for satellite systems that run dc on the coax to power the LNB at
>>>> the
>>>> dish. It will generally be more expensive. Solid copper center
>>>> conductor
>>>> will be listed as type BC (bare copper) in the datasheets.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Timo
>>>> Korhonen"<timo.korhonen at elisanet.fi>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> We are putting up new beverages for 160/80 at OH5Z.
>>>>> I have a question regarding the feedline. We have to make
>>>>> quite long runs like 1500 feet.
>>>>> When looking for a low cost 75 ohm coaxial I found a Belden
>>>>> RG6 type cable which is reasonably priced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is a link for technical data
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1733139.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> This cable has a copper covered steel inner conductor.
>>>>> Is this an issue on low frequency like 1.8 MHz with long runs like
>>>>> 1500
>>>>> feet?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your help
>>>>>
>>>>> 73, Timo OG9X
>>>>> oh5z.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________
>>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7753 - Release Date:
>>>> 06/27/14
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 13
>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:13:34 +0000 (UTC)
>>> From: mstangelo at comcast.net
>>> To: Carl<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> Cc: topband at contesting.com, Grant Saviers<grants2 at pacbell.net>
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <1832929880.19769221.1403882014626.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>
>>> One option for outdoor use Polyethelene PE covered wire.
>>>
>>> One good source is Dog Fence Wire:
>>>
>>> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/14-Gauge-Heavy-Duty-Superior-Pro-Dog-Fence-Wire-Solid-for-Invisible-Fence-/400264279386?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d319c355a#ht_3626wt_1124>
>>>
>>> It is meant to be used outdoors but the price is higher than other
>>> alternatives.
>>>
>>> Mike N2MS
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Carl<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> To: Grant Saviers<grants2 at pacbell.net>, topband at contesting.com
>>> Sent: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:57:45 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>>
>>> Around here that wire gets pretty well corroded after a few years just
>>> in
>>> the air from acid rain and salt laden fog off the ocean 20-30 miles
>>> away.
>>>
>>> I wonder what that does to the conductivity? OTOH my yagi elements from
>>> a
>>> different alloy are still rather shiny after 30-40 years.
>>>
>>> THHN for wire antennas seems to hold up the PVC layer 10-15 years then
>>> becomes fodder for elevated radials.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> KM1H
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 14
>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 11:16:44 -0400
>>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> To: "Jim Garland"<4cx250b at miamioh.edu>,<Topband at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>> Message-ID:<30FAC4C9CF43426DBE79523B71DB6665 at computer1>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>> This area still has a huge amount of electronics related industry. BAE
>>> and
>>> Raytheon included.
>>>
>>> When a military contract has been shipped the left overs get scrapped
>>> unlike
>>> a small commercial or research outfit where nothing is wasted.
>>>
>>> We also have a fair amount of business failures which adds to the
>>> surplus
>>> market.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> KM1H
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jim Garland"<4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
>>> To:<Topband at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 4:54 PM
>>> Subject: Topband: , Re: Deployable radials for 80/160M
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here in sunny NM, with nothing resembling grass, I just laid my sixty
>>>> 120
>>>> ft
>>>> radials on the top of the desert. It's stranded 14 AWG with a brown
>>>> THHN
>>>> insulation that matches the dirt. I figure in a couple of years the
>>>> insulation will pretty much be gone, and then it will just be bare
>>>> copper.
>>>> Ain't nobody going to be bothered by that except the coyotes. The
>>>> antenna
>>>> is 750 ft from my station, and fed with (buried) 50 ohm 1/2 inch CATV
>>>> hardline.
>>>>
>>>> Don't know how Carl finds that cheap PTFE stranded wire. I wire all my
>>>> homebrew projects with it, and am always on the lookout, but never see
>>>> any
>>>> at the local surplus places. Los Alamos National Labs is nearby but
>>>> never
>>>> seems to have any. I'm guessing they must use something else to wire
>>>> up
>>>> nuclear weapons.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Jim W8ZR
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7753 - Release Date:
>>>> 06/27/14
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Topband mailing list
>>> Topband at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 24
>>> ****************************************
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7744 - Release Date:
>>> 06/25/14
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Topband mailing list
>> Topband at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Topband Digest, Vol 138, Issue 25
>> ****************************************
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7759 - Release Date: 06/28/14
>>
>>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7770 - Release Date: 06/30/14
>
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