Topband: WTB: Guy wire stuff - please be safe

[Carl]

Sounds like a lot of Nervous Nellie knee knocking to me Tim. Caution within 
reason is a good thing, understanding that all Rohn tower specs plus PLP and 
other hardware providers are extremely conservative has to be considered 
also. Going overboard with disaster predictions does nobody any good.

First of all Im only going to 90' of 25G where 3/16 is the Rohn spec and Im 
going to 1/4". The tower will be lightly loaded, by my standards, and even 
grips that are 2" shorter will have far more holding power than the tower 
calls for. All my towers use Rohn guy brackets with torque arms, none of the 
Hammy Hambone method of wrapping the guy around a tower leg.

The difference between properly tensioned 3/16 and 1/4" guys on 25 and 45G 
is immediately felt as the tower is much more stable feeling with the 
latter; especially when muscling around heavy stuff at the top and/or with 2 
people.

My 180' 45G has been up since 1990 and the Rohn spec is still for 3/16. Im 
using 1/4 with the guy anchors at the full Rohn spec distance. For added 
safety I used the proper size guy clamp near the end of each grip as 
recommended by a REAL tower professional who I used to assist on 300-600' 
work. The tower also sits on a pier pin so the guys do all the work.

As you and many others know Im on top of the highest hill in 20+ miles and 
subject to intense hill effect updraft winds plus numerous nor'easters, 
micobursts, high speed T storms, Cat 1-2 hurricanes plus general unamed 
coastal storms with hurricane class gusts. The ocean is 20-30 miles from 
here over a wide azimuth and it is all downhill from here.

Im also known for exceeding Rohn loading specs as far back as the 60's. For 
several years here the 180' had a 4/4 KLM 4el 40 plus 4/4/4/4 PV-4's (40' 
booms) on 20. The only damage was keeping the top KLM from breaking element 
to boom insulators. The pier pin and oversized 1/4 guys did exactly what I 
intended. The 100' 25G was also overloaded with 10 and 15M stacks plus 2M 
and 222MHz pairs of long booms. Those two towers also have 22' chrome moly 
masts.

The above is  Real World Testimonial.

Carl
KM1H




> Be very careful with "real world" testimonials - giving advice to use
> products for the wrong application is really dangerous. We are talking 
> about
> serious tower projects that can turn fatal if you use the wrong equipment. 
> I
> don't care how high the tower is. PLEASE USE THE RIGHT STUFF!
>
> If anyone uses the wrong tower hardware and does not have problems or does
> not get killed, I call that "luck". Do you want to bet your life on luck?
>
> Use the EXACT product that is specifically designed for tower 
> applications.
> Do not take short cuts! Pay attention to the tower, guy wire and antenna
> manufactures instructions. Tower guy wires are special. Talk to a
> professional mechanical engineer with tower engineering experience, he 
> will
> tell you.  There is a reason there are two different PLP products for two
> very different applications.
>
> Every year several Hams are killed in tower accidents because they took
> short cuts, bad chances or tried to save money - or worst of all, they got
> bad advice. What is your life or one of your friend's lives worth?
>
> Have you ever gone to a funeral of a tower climber?
> I have - and it changed my life forever.
>
> PLEASE BE SAFE
>
> 73,
> Tim K3LR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 10:44 PM
> To: donovanf at starpower.net
> Cc: Carl; topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: WTB: Guy wire stuff
>
> Have been for the last 7 years...no issues at all.  The tower products are
> just an adaptation of products used in the power distribution business for
> years.  I work for an electric utility, one of the largest in the US. 
> I've
> seen both products and see no difference in their design.  The preformed
> line products grips are used to guy transmission towers on a routine 
> basis.
> We also use them to support fiber optic cables on distribution and
> transmission structures.
>
> I chose the PLP grips for my 65' tower...they were a good bit cheaper.
>
> I also used screw down anchors for my guy points...the ones used in the
> electrical distribution business.  Bigger plates, galvanized instead of
> painted and heavier duty....for less money.
>
>
> But it is a personal choice....
>
> Cecil
> K5DL
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Sep 4, 2014, at 3:13 PM, donovanf at starpower.net wrote:
>>
>> Hi Carl,
>>
>> Preformed Line Products says: ""Guy-Grip Dead-ends are intended for
>> use on single wood poles associated with distribution construction."
>>
>> If you examine the Rohn tower hardware catalog, they list only Big Grips,
>> never a mention of using wood pole Guy Grips on any of their towers
>>
>> For a few dollars more you can use the BG-2144 Big Grip product
>> recommended by the manufacturer for use on towers.
>>
>> Use Guy Grips for wood poles at your own risk...
>>
>> 73
>> Frank
>> W3LPL
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> To: donovanf at starpower.net, "Bill Wichers" <billw at waveform.net>
>> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:14:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: Topband: WTB: Guy wire stuff
>>
>> Not according to the folks that invented them Frank. The Big Grip is a 
>> Guy
>
>> Grip for serious towers.
>>
>>
> http://www.preformed.com/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_phocadownload%26view%3Dcat
> egory%26download%3D44:plp-commcatsec20-2012%26id%3D15:strand-and-cable-produ
> cts%26Itemid%3D145&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=nqoIVJWDDcmayAT5hoHQDA&ved=
> 0CBQQFjAA&sig2=1aPQDpfnvYFm8XWlxXxgjw&usg=AFQjCNEns72sjImeKDRibuLmm62WL9bSqA
>>
>> The Preform name is often used as a noun by cable apes (-;
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <donovanf at starpower.net>
>> To: "Bill Wichers" <billw at waveform.net>
>> Cc: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>; <topband at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 1:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Topband: WTB: Guy wire stuff
>>
>>
>>> Tower guys should use Big Grips, not the performs used by electric
>>> utilities. You can purchase Big Grips from Texas Towers and many other
>>> suppliers
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Frank
>>> W3LPL
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: Bill Wichers <billw at waveform.net>
>>> To: Carl <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>, topband at contesting.com
>>> Sent: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 13:31:07 -0400 (EDT)
>>> Subject: Re: Topband: WTB: Guy wire stuff
>>>
>>> If you only need a few like this, try calling some of the utility
>>> contractors in your area. They will always have the dead ends and the
> guys
>>> that also do the power work will also have the insulators. They will
>>> probably be able to sell you a few without too much trouble.
>>>
>>> BTW, the utility guys will usually call the "dead ends" "preforms"
>>> (different industry, different terminology :-), but they are the same
>>> thing. The telco/cable guys use 1/4" EHS strand for a support line for
>>> their cables so they will always have hardware for that. The preforms 
>>> are
>
>>> cheap enough from the crew's perspective that they are occasionally used
>>> as temporary "twist ties" to hole up cable prior to lashing.
>>>
>>> You can order the stuff from Graybar too (probably the telecom division,
>>> but the power division can get stuff too), but I don't know about their
>>> prices. I've only ever ordered by the carton at work.
>>>
>>> -Bill
>>>
>>> > What I need is:
>>> >
>>> > Up to 12 502 guy insulators
>>> > Up to 18 1/4" deadends/guy grips
>>> >
>>> > Individually prices from dealers is ridiculous and I dont need case
>>> loads as I
>>> > bought when building the other 3 towers in 90-91 and wound up 
>>> giving
>
>>> away
>>> > what I didnt use.
>>> >
>>> > Any help appreciated.
>>> >
>>> > Carl
>>> > KM1H
>>> >
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>>
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