Topband: What IS troubling about this report....

[Larry]

Sometimes the DXpedition is its own worst enemy. If they ask for W6 and then 
relent after a couple tries to work the W6 and then works someone  else 
sends the message is you guys can bulldoze me so keep calling. Many of the 
later DXpeditions have been much better at this and more persistent in 
working the station they were calling. The problem of persisting to work 
they station is that it ruins your QSO rate. Of course, all of those callers 
can ruin your QSO rate as well. Another classic one is DX lectures on "don't 
call while I am working a station" and then proceeds W6 59, now W4 59. The 
W6 59, now the other W6 is understandable. Both of those scenarios give rise 
to constant calling unfortunately.

The E30 yesterday actually worked a couple of stations that I heard almost 
on his own frequency which doesn't help.

Sadly, I think it was an E30 pile, E30 called someone and he didn't respond. 
E30 called again. Someone said something like "Fred send your report" and 
"Fred" dutifully sent his report. Another "QSO" in the log. Years ago I had 
heard that done on 2M several times.

73, Larry  W6NWS

-----Original Message----- 
From: W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 12:48 AM
To: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....

Much of the time it is a simple mistake.  I did it to the E30 tonight
and I am trying to be very careful.  I changed bands and came back and
the split was cancelled.   I was that Lid.

Usually a simple up up is fine but the cops have to go off on rant. Then
I hear up, I immediately look to make sure split is on and the b vfo is
in the pile.

Many people simply do no listen or are chasing DX on CW when they have
very little comprehension of CW and are lucky to send their call and be
able to understand it when called.

The new disturbing trend I have seen is that nobody listens or cares
what the DX asks for on Phone or CW.  The Dx calls for the W6 and W1 N3
K4 PY2 etc all continue to call and call and call attempting to cover up
or bulldoze the station the DX wants to steal that contact.  I have
watched my P3 where the station who the DX wants to work was pretty
clean and then 10 people show up on that frequency.

This was a behavior that used to be carried out generally by a country
in Europe in the 80's.  Apparently it has now caught on all over.  This
behavior is wrecking the rate that the DX could be going as he has to
ask for fills 2 or 3 or more times.

Mike W0MU

On 3/14/2015 9:04 PM, Tom WA2BCK wrote:
> Glenn,
> Your summary was wonderful and loaded with excellent advice. I often 
> wonder why stations persist in calling on the DX stations transmit 
> frequency. Surely by now, the entire ham radio community must realize that 
> DXpeditions operate up or down and usually do not answer calls on their 
> own transmit frequency.  It continually amazes me how many times people 
> call on the DX stations transmit frequency. It is sooooo frustrating! I 
> don't know the appropriate solution but I would like to broadcast to the 
> entire ham radio community to listen when the operator says UP.  Thanks 
> for allowing me to blow off steam!
> Tom
> WA2BCK
>
> -----Original Message----- From: James Rodenkirch
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 4:39 PM
> To: Top Band Contesting
> Subject: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
>
>
>
> ....from one of the K1N ops is there is nothing new here.....all of his 
> dozen plus points is/ae SOOOOO fundamental to anyone chasing 
> DX.......terrible operating habits or approaches by the majority of the DX 
> chasers, obviously...
>
> I did work K1N with QRP power on 80, 20 and 15 so feel fortunate to 
> "squeak in," so to speak...72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
>
>
> From
> Glen W0GJ operating at K1N (as reported in the “Gray Line Report” of the 
> Twin
> Cities ARC:
>
>
> GOOD
> ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE  !Feedback and Lessons I learn a lot 
> from
> every DXpedition I’ve ever been on.  I’ve put together a summary of my two 
> weeks
> of operation from Navassa. I’m sure all of my teammates will concur with 
> what
> I’ve observed and learned. European stations complained a lot for the 
> “short
> time” we worked Europe. QUITE THE CONTRARY!!!!
> This is a MOST interesting point of discussion! If you look at the times
> in our logs, we spent MORE time working Europe than working North America. 
> Our
> Club Log statistics, however, show that North America had 58% of the 
> contacts,
> Europe 32% and Asia 6%. WHY, then, if MORE time was spent working Europe, 
> was Europe
> about half the number of North American contacts??? Simple answer: RATE.
> Period. When you listened to us working North America, we could cruise 
> right
> along at 300-350 Qs/hour, or more! I often saw the “rate meter” hanging 
> around
> 500-600 Qs/hour. (I heard that someone on the team was clocked at 1,200
> Qs/hour….. on 160m!!!!) When working Europe, we would be extremely lucky 
> to see
> rates of 100 Qs/hour. Euro-pean signals are as strong, if not stronger 
> than
> North American signals, in the Caribbean. The west coast U.S. is much 
> harder to
> work than Europe. South American signals were among the strongest! Here is 
> a
> note I received after I returned home. It is from a well-known DXer in 
> Europe:
> “I listened to XXX working US pile-up on 80m. Fantastic, at least 10 QSOs 
> per
> minute, and when he turned to listen for Europe, the rate was only 10% of 
> that.
> Same on the other bands and modes.” The problem is THROUGHPUT. Rate.
> Efficiency. Cooperation. Whatever you want to call it. For the time we 
> spent
> working Europe, we should have MORE contacts than with North America, but 
> that
> did not happen. It COULD have happened! No one more than me would like to 
> have
> seen the European Qs outnumber North American Qs. For the “next one,” I 
> have
> some suggestions to help DXers, including myself, and particularly DXers 
> in
> Europe, to be more successful.
>
> Here
> is what I see are the issues: (This applies to US hams as well for more 
> distant
> DX operations – N8PR)1. Not listening to the DX operator. 2. LISTEN to and
> LEARN the rate and rhythm of the operator. 3. LISTEN to WHERE the operator 
> is
> listening, and to his PATTERN of moving his VFO. You MUST KNOW where he 
> will
> listen next if you expect him to hear you! How simple is that? It is part 
> of
> the hunt… and the fun of DXing…. and getting rewarded! 4. Learn to use 
> your
> radio (split/simplex, etc.). 5. Do NOT jump to and call on the frequency 
> of the
> last station worked. The DX station will NOT hear you, because the din is 
> total
> unintelligible chaos. Move UP or DOWN from that frequency, as we on our 
> end were
> continuously tuning up or down after each Q. So, if one jumps onto the
> last-worked frequency, we will not hear you, even if you were the only one
> there, as we have already tuned off that frequency. 6. TURN OFF ALL SPEECH
> PROCESSORS AND COMPRESSION! Do NOT overdrive ALC. There is a night and day
> difference in listening to NA/AS and EU pileups. The horrible distortion 
> makes
> it impossible to copy many, if not most European callsigns. I don’t know 
> what
> it is, but I would bet that mic gain and compression controls are 
> “firewall
> forward,” all the way clockwise. There were MANY loud stations that we did 
> not
> work, COULD NOT WORK, simply because we could NOT understand their 
> terribly
> distorted callsign. Have you ever listened to yourself in a pileup? We 
> gave many
> stations a “19” signal report. Very loud, but extremely unintelligible! 
> You
> want to have IN-TELLIGABILITY, not distortion! 7. Give your call sign ONCE 
> and
> ONLY ONCE! DO NOT KEEP CALLING! Call. Listen. Call again, if needed. 
> Listen.
> Listen. We would tune on by those who did not stop calling. We are looking 
> for
> RATE and getting stations into the log. You should be, too!!! 8. If the DX
> station comes back with your call-sign, DO NOT REPEAT YOUR CALLSIGN, AS WE
> ALREADY KNOW IT, or we would not have answered you. Many stations (in all
> modes) would repeat their callsign two, three and even four times or more! 
> This
> was so frustrating at times, that we would just move on to the next 
> station. We
> ONLY want to hear “5NN” or “59” from you. Anything else is a total waste 
> of
> time. Let me repeat, if we come back with YOUR call sign, DO NOT REPEAT it 
> back
> to us! (Did I repeat myself?..... forgive me!) It CHEATS others out of a 
> chance
> to get into the log. Only repeat your call sign if it needs correction, 
> and
> then let us know it is a correction. Our propagation windows and time on 
> the
> island are limited, and we need to maximize the opportunity for everyone. 
> SPEED
> and EFFICIENCY ARE OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE! 9. LISTEN to the DX station come 
> back
> to some-one. IF THERE IS NOTHING CLOSE TO OR RESEMBLING YOUR CALLSIGN…… 
> SHUT
> UP! SHUT UP!!!!! This needless interference slows things up, and lessens 
> YOUR
> chance of getting into the log! We are focused on the call sign we heard 
> and do
> not hear you, only your QRM. 10. Take some time to listen to the next
> DXpedition working North America, and listen to the rate and rhythm of the
> operator. It is fast, quick and efficient, and more people get into the 
> log!
> Then listen to him work Europe. The wise operator will catch on quickly to 
> what
> it takes to get into the log! 11. SPREAD OUT! Our highest rates (for any
> continent) were working the center and far edges of the pileup, where 
> there was
> less QRM. Weak stations were much easier to work than loud stations in the
> middle of the pileup. If we say, “Listening 200 to 210,” 70% of the pileup 
> sits
> exactly on 200 in an unintelligible din, 25% of the pileup sits on 210 and 
> is
> almost as bad. 5% of the pileup will be spread out somewhere between 201 
> and
> 209, making them very quickly put into the log. S P R E A D O U T ! ! ! ! 
> Dare
> to be different! Dare to be heard! 12. LOUD is NOT better! MORE
> AUDIO/COMPRESSION is NOT better! Finding the spot to be HEARD is the MOST
> important thing you can do to get into the log. My biggest thrill (and I’m 
> sure
> on both ends) is finding the lone weak station and getting him into the 
> log,
> quickly. 13. LISTEN to the DX operator’s INSTRUCTIONS! As we would 
> constantly
> tune our VFO, if we find a clear spot, we would often say, “33” (meaning 
> for
> YOU to transmit on 14.033, 28.433, etc). A few would listen, and get into 
> the
> log very quickly. You cannot hear these hints if you keep calling,calling,
> calling, calling ……… Many times, I would say, “listening 200 to 210,” and 
> after
> a while, would say, “listening 240 to 250.” Often 30 to 45 minutes, even 
> and
> HOUR later, I would find MANY still calling on the original “200 to 
>  210”….. of
> course, they would never show up in our log, as I was not listening there.
> LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN and LISTEN SOME MORE. The less you transmit, the 
> better
> chance you have of get-ting into the log. You must know where I am 
> listening,
> if you really want to get into the log. 14. LISTEN to the “good” guys who 
> make
> it into the log. Study how they do it! It is not easy to find the “good” 
> guys,
> as they are quick and efficient and are in the log and gone, long before 
> anyone
> can find them. They don’t transmit much. They are listening. 15. LISTEN to 
> the
> “bad” guys. It won’t take you long to find them. They keep calling and 
> calling.
> They aren’t listening to find out where to transmit, or they wouldn’t be
> calling. How simple is that? Being LOUD helps, but not if the DX is not 
> hearing
> you! If you don’t want to get into the DX log, just ignore the above
> suggestions, and keep calling, calling, calling….. I wish you the best of 
> luck.
> You’ll need it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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